Bypass psi critical?

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I have an '06 Xterra that uses an Amsoil EA013 filter- which is TINY! Looks like a much larger EAO36 will physically fit but it has a different bypass psi rating. Original is 8-11psi and the larger is 11-17psi. Neither filter will ever see more than 8000 miles. I'm running either 10W-30 or 5W-30 Amsoil.
Just wondering if the higher bypass will have any issues? I'm thinking not as the larger filter has more surface area and will not be used for an extreme amount of mileage. I figure the bypass will never even have to open, especially since I'm running free-flowing synthetic.
Any thoughts?
 
You shouldn't have a problem with the correct filter for your application.

Smaller doesn't mean less dirt holding capacity.

Amsoil EAO filters with their nano technology should have good dirt holding capacity.

As long as you do not have sludge in your new vehicle, you'll be alright.

Now a question for you...

Just because you find a larger filter that will fit....do you think Amsoil only has one grade of media and uses it in every EAO filter they sell?

So besides the difference in the by-pass valve setting, you might want to consider the differences in the media and that relationship to when the valve will open.


I personally have never used a larger filter, for years have gone extended drain intervals on vehicles to 130,000 miles and never had a problem with the oil or filter. I also do oil analysis.
 
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chuckling

You would be asking the same question if you chose a PureOne (typically 12-16) over a Wix (typically 8-11) ..a Baldwin would have a 14 psi rating. I think it's there (at the specific levels) to protect the media.


Go bigger if you feel like it. Engines today are so clean that they don't load filters that much. I think most will handle 15k in terms of loading capacity ..probably more. The only limitation, imo, is the time factor. That is, not all 15k FCI's are created equal.
 
Fellows, what do you think of Terry's recent comments where he seems to think that many filters are in bypass more than we think/would like?

Filter Guy, are you a highway driver or city? Do you use filters that most folks here would think of as some sort of "premium" filter, or just whatever's on sale?
 
FG uses ST filters typically, IIRC.

Terry's experience may be different then mine. My observations are on one engine. From that/those observations I've constructed my "belief".

There have been customers of Terry that have had lingering HLA noise reduced with the changing of filters. This may just be due to his engine specific knowledge. My observations are applied generically and surely have to be qualified.

I tried my best to get a fitler to twitch in PSID. It rarely happened. Not just bypass threshold ..but virtually anything over 2-5 PSID was never a common reading. I used highly restrictive filters (PureOne) and the smallest size available (the PH3614 size) in my 3.0 Mitsubishi engine.

The only substantial results that I saw was with very heavy oil (20w-50) in subfreezing temps (test performed @28F after an overnight low in the teens) with a 10k old filter (FL300 sized PureOne) that was sent to me by another member. Even that didn't produce enough PSID to break the bypass threshold of 12-16 on a PureOne. The loading did most of the contribution toward the elevated PSID. My newer, smaller, filter hardly even twitched.

HOWEVER, this is just on one engine. My theory, based on observations, is that you will see bypass activity most where the oil pump relief is open (which would be during cold starts and perhaps high rpm speed shifting). Many pushrod engines don't have "matched" oil systems. The pump volume and the pump relief may have no relationship to each other. The relief may be to limit stress on the pump drive ..and have nothing to do with the pump volume.

I would say that a bypass valve would be most active in an engine that has true pressure readings where the cold pressure and the hot pressure have very little difference. That would indicate to me that the oil pump is routinely in relief and then the oil flow doesn't have to resemble the linear models that are almost mandated when the pump is not relieved.

So, Terry can surely be correct, but without qualifying his statements ..there are surely exceptions. I, naturally, tend to believe and follow my self formed rules. Terry, who makes a whole lot more money then I do (not to mention training, higher education, and professional experience) surely follows his.

Keep in mind, aside from my toying around with this homegrown experiment, I've yet to see any SAE paper or other bona fide authoritative article that takes this topic on.
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Dudeman,

No reason to go to a larger filter here.

1) You are only going 8k miles, so you won't come close to exceeding the capacity of the EAO filter
2) EAo filters have very low restriction, so the bypass valve won't be open very much in either case.
3) You don't need a larger sump capacity to only go 8k miles with synthetic.

TS
 
Thanks for all the info guys!
I guess I want to go with a bigger filter because I just like a larger oil capacity and a larger filter area can't hurt either. Cost is the same for both anyway.
So, looks like the concensus is that the bypass rating is maybee not all that critical? As for media being different- possible but probably not very economically sound. And as for the byapss rating being due to filter design considerations I wonder why Amsoil has two EXACT same filters but only differ in their psi?
Lots of questions....
 
Gary, do you have a convenient way to tell whether your engine oil pump bypass is open? I wonder whether I'm misunderstanding what Terry's posting or what he means. Anyway, your observations are most helpful; thank you.
 
Sure. If you've got a real pressure gauge ..find it's ceiling. Whatever that reading is (usually cold start) ..is, probably, your oil pump's pressure limit. When you're up against this ceiling ..the flow is probably variable based on visc at that time. As the oil thins ..more flow.

Let's say 60psi is the max observed pressure regardless of outside temp or oil visc in the sump. This is probably your pump limit. Whenever you're at 60 psi ..you can figure that you're probably in relief. The higher the rpm ..and the heavier the oil ..the more will be shunted and not sent to the engine.

Let's say you have a cold start of 60psi and a hot idle of 15 psi ..and a peak hot pressure of 40 psi. Whenever you're below 60 psi ..the pump relief is typically closed. If you observe 60 psi max cold ..and 55psi min the rest of the time with routine and continuous 60 psi readings ..then you are probably frequently in relief and your flow through the engine/filter is variable based on the current visc.

Some engines appear to be setup this way
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. The engine man. gives a healthy potential volume to the pump that is somewhat in excess of the engines abilty to move oil through it.

Now take something like an Audi/VW with their 30lb filter bypass valves ..they have to have substantial ceilings between the pressure yield and the relief to "fit" that 30psi into the equation without losing flow.
 
I know my filter isn't in bypass. It is a pureone cartride that deformed into an hour glass shape. I'll be posting pictures of it tomorrow. Can't wait to contact purolator.
 
Thanks, Gary. What I meant, though, is do you have a way to tell (on your Mitsu)?

unDummy: Interested to see your pics. Can you still see the string that is around all the Purolators' media?

Filter guy: Thanks for the link. That's an interesting test and result. I absolutely hate to even go into the ant pile that is the evil empire, so Super Tech is not going to happen for me. Perhaps I'll have to cruise the sub-forum some time and see whether I can tell what other labels come from the same place (preferably with the high-filtration media). Does Champ have non-USA manufacturing facilities, too?
 
Yes. The same way I just told you. I have a max (at the point of indication at the engine side of the remote filter) of 82psi.

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I don't have those gauges installed currently ..but will probably incorporate them into this differential gauge
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quote:

Originally posted by bulwnkl:


Filter guy: Thanks for the link. That's an interesting test and result. I absolutely hate to even go into the ant pile that is the evil empire, so Super Tech is not going to happen for me. Perhaps I'll have to cruise the sub-forum some time and see whether I can tell what other labels come from the same place (preferably with the high-filtration media). Does Champ have non-USA manufacturing facilities, too?


Not any more. They did have one in Mexico but it is being or has been shut down and the production equipment moved back to illinois.

So there probably is still some Mexican made product still in the pipeline..but no longer a facility.
 
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