Bypass pressure on ST9688?

[Jimmy9190]

I have a question please, I ordered oil and filters from Walmart for both of mine and my wife's Nissan Rogues. WM is out of the ST6607 that is normally spec'ed for the Rogue. I ordered the PH7317 equivalent ST9688. I received everything today, now I find out there may be a difference in bypass relief pressure. The Fram PH6607 has a relief pressure of 13 psi. Fram PH7317 relief pressure is listed on Fram's website as "9 to 15".

I am assuming the ST9688 has the same pressure as the PH7317 which is supposed to be able to cross reference to the ST6607. There is no ST7317 available. Question is, does the two different psi relief values make a difference? The cars are my 2018 Rogue and wife's 2014 Rogue both with the 2.5 4 cylinder and the new oil going in both this weekend is Valvoline 0W20 Advanced. I would like to use the ST9688's if the pressure reliefs are not a problem but if I have to I will go to WM myself and exchange the ST9688's for PH6607's.

Thanks for any help on this.

 

[Ignatius]

I would say with some confidence that it will not matter. Champ builds Supertech filters and knows what the bypass spec should be all automaker brands considered. It is a solid product and I would use it with confidence.

 

[oldhp]

Since you don't know the by-pass PSI on the Super Tech filters your question can't be answered. Going on that info, then I would use the FRAM PH6607.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Thanks, this is the first time I have ever tried to use a non-spec oversize filter. The Champ Filtration web site says the Champ branded filter for the Rogue is a PH2876 but it does not list the bypass relief spec at all. And the Champ filter does not look at all like the ST6607, it has a different base plate and the ST6988 has a very different beveled gasket, it is not flat like the PH6607 and ST6607. I will find the time to get to Walmart and exchange the ST's for Fram's. This is not something I need to be monkeying around with.

Thanks again.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Walmart web site says I can not return or exchange anything bought online to the store. It has to be done by mail. That actually makes things much easier for me. I just ordered a couple of PH6607's and Wally says they will be here at my house tomorrow, actually a little later today. As long as I have them on hand Saturday morning I will be happy. Lesson learned. Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I have a question please, I ordered oil and filters from Walmart for both of mine and my wife's Nissan Rogues. WM is out of the ST6607 that is normally spec'ed for the Rogue. I ordered the PH7317 equivalent ST9688. I received everything today, now I find out there may be a difference in bypass relief pressure. The Fram PH6607 has a relief pressure of 13 psi. Fram PH7317 relief pressure is listed on Fram's website as "9 to 15".

This has been asked before (see your bold text above). The PH6607 and PH7317 are basically the same filter, but the PH7317 is just longer. Many people here run the over-sized 7317 where the 6607 is specified as long as there is room when it's mounted on the engine.

Best theory on why one is listed as just 13 PSI and the other as 9 to 15 PSI is because 9 PSI is when the bypass valve starts to open and 15 PSI is when it's fully open. 13 PSI is about in the middle of the 9 to 15 range and may simply be shown as the nominal (middle) setting. IMO, all bypass valve specs should be listing the initial opening pressure, but you'll never find out for sure unless you could talk to the engineers who designed the bypass valve.

 

[CharBaby]

My Altima recommends the 6607 or equivalent but I only use the 7317 or equivalent.

 

[Koainn]

The oil filters bypass rating has nothing to do with the type of car or oil pressure the cars pump makes...each manufacturer and filter size have different bypass pressures because of the filter media and size

 

[dnewton3]

It's not going to matter. Here's why ...

1) assuming you're using the Xw-20 oil for the Rogues, the BP isn't going to open up anyway. Only if you were to floor the accelerator pedal up to redline on a stone-cold engine would the BP open, and even then only for a second or two until the dP would equalize. Our member Jim Allen did some extensive dP testing on this very topic; the data essentially shows that BP valves don't open nearly as much as folks think.

2) Zee is right; the BP pressure is a range and not a singular value; this is because coil springs have a "spring rate" based upon the compressed distance value. The spring will react to the dP as it should; more dP will result in more opening. But, it's pretty much moot; see #1 above.

My advice? Go find something else to worry aboug which actually has merit. This is a topic which many fret over for no good reason.

 

[Sayjac]

...... WM is out of the ST6607 that is normally spec'ed for the Rogue. I ordered the PH7317 equivalent ST9688.

I am assuming the ST9688 has the same pressure as the PH7317 which is supposed to be able to cross reference to the ST6607. There is no ST7317 available.....

First going to say, 'I' would not be concerned about the bypass psi.

Otoh, the current ST9688 made by Champ is an entirely different application than the 6607. Different size, wider diameter than the 6607/7317 applications. Helping maintain a 2017 Rogue 2.5L, there's a metal ring that surrounds the OF installation area/point. I am very doubtful that any Rogue/Nissan with that metal ring will permit installation of the wider 9688 application. Obviously without seeing or knowing vehicle years can't say definitively. But, you may not even be able to screw on the ST9688.

Having maintained a couple Nissans over the years and being fairly familiar with OF installation, never seen one that spec'd the shorty 6607 where the 7317 didn't fit and work fine. That includes the aforementioned 17 Rogue. I always use the slightly longer but same specs and diameter 7317.

So, you may want to check to make sure you can install the 9688 first. Not sure how WM is arriving at the ST9688 being equivalent, other than the previous Wix made made ST9688 was in reality the 7317 application OF.

 

[Ignatius]

To echo what others have said I would recommend using a Fram 7317 or Champ 2867 size filter in place of a Fram 6607 or Cham 2876 size filter so long as it will fit on within the confines of where the filter is located on the engine. I did this in the past on a buddy's Nissan Altima with no issues and it fit perfectly.

 

[Jimmy9190]

To echo what others have said I would recommend using a Fram 7317 or Champ 2867 size filter in place of a Fram 6607 or Cham 2876 size filter so long as it will fit on within the confines of where the filter is located on the engine. I did this in the past on a buddy's Nissan Altima with no issues and it fit perfectly.

Thanks. The ST6988 and Champ PH2867 both have the same measurements. 2.67" diameter and 3.35" length. The Fram PH6607 is 2.65" diameter and 2.99" length. There is a metal ridge around part of the filter area on my engine but there is a good half inch gap between the ridge and the side of the current ST6607 I have on there now. I believe the ST9688 will fit the engine no problem. So do you think I should not worry about the bypass pressure and use the ST9688? I would like to use it as long as there is no problems with it. I like the plastic inner cage and it has better media and pleat spacing based on the pics of ST9688s I have seen cut open. There is no ST 7317 or MP7317 at any WM around here.

Thanks for the help on this.

 

[Ignatius]

Thanks. The ST6988 and Champ PH2867 both have the same measurements. 2.67" diameter and 3.35" length. The Fram PH6607 is 2.65" diameter and 2.99" length. There is a metal ridge around part of the filter area on my engine but there is a good half inch gap between the ridge and the side of the current ST6607 I have on there now. I believe the ST9688 will fit the engine no problem. So do you think I should not worry about the bypass pressure and use the ST9688? I would like to use it as long as there is no problems with it. I like the plastic inner cage and it has better media and pleat spacing based on the pics of ST9688s I have seen cut open. There is no ST 7317 or MP7317 at any WM around here.

Thanks for the help on this.

I think you'll be fine using the ST9688. In the future I would consider using a 6607 or 7317 sized filter because that is what is specifically recommended for the engine but a 9688 series filter is not a cause for worry as a one off usage.

 

[Sayjac]

Not sure where or how the diameter for the ST9688 ( 6988 sic) is being derived. But the diameter difference between the 6607/7317 apps (2.69" using Fram PH 6607 site info) and the 9688 ("2.67" dia". quoted) is 'not' .02" difference. Using Fram PH9688 site info, the OD is 3.02". The ST9688 if not identical, would be very close.

That said, seems you've made your decision. Good luck.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Not sure where or how the diameter for the ST9688 ( 6988 sic) is being derived. But the diameter difference between the 6607/7317 apps (2.69" using Fram PH 6607 site info) and the 9688 ("2.67" dia". quoted) is 'not' .02" difference. Using Fram PH9688 site info, the OD is 3.02". The ST9688 if not the same, would be very close.

That said, seems you've made your decision. Good luck.

You are right Sayjac. I should have checked the dimensions of that ST9688 before even starting this thread. On the WM site it shows LWH of the ST9688 to be 3.15" x 3.15" x 3.31". There is no way it will fit. I thought the Champ PH2876 would have the same measurements as a ST9688. I was wrong. I will just use the shorty Fram 6607 and maybe next time try the 7317 if I can find one. Back when I had my Honda Civic WM hardly ever had any of the Fram 7317's on the shelf. The Fram is still a very good filter. I should have just ordered Fram to begin with and not tried this little project.

Thanks again everybody.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The Fram PH6607 has a relief pressure of 13 psi. Fram PH7317 relief pressure is listed on Fram's website as "9 to 15".

Forgot to clarify that the same exact bypass valve is most likely used in both filters. I bet Fram only makes 2 or 3 different bypass valves ... I know the color of the nylon button in the valve assembly represents the opening PSI setting. Motorking clarified that some time ago. You might want to try and contact Fram to see if they will divulge the color of the bypass valve vs the PSI setting.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The oil filters bypass rating has nothing to do with the type of car or oil pressure the cars pump makes...each manufacturer and filter size have different bypass pressures because of the filter media and size

The filter bypass setting does have something to do with the car, but it's not the only factor as you have eluded to. The filter bypass setting has to be based on the highest flowing oil pump and recommended oil viscosity based on the most demanding vehicle in the total group that the oil filter is specified for. For instance, if vehicle XYZ was specified to use 10W-40 oil and had an oil pump that put out 12 GPM at oil pump pressure relief, then the filter bypass valve better be designed for that situation. This is why there are special application filters with very high bypass valve settings (around 23 PSI) like the ones for Subarus that have very high flowing oil pumps. The oil filter better be designed to also be able to take full delta-p (bypass valve setting) all day long without damage. That can be pretty demanding to do. The oil filter is designed around the oiling system instead of the oiling system being designed around the oil filter.

 

[Sayjac]

You are right Sayjac. I should have checked the dimensions of that ST9688 before even starting this thread. On the WM site it shows LWH of the ST9688 to be 3.15" x 3.15" x 3.31". There is no way it will fit.....

I saw those, but I was thinking those likely box dimensions. But, looked at OD for Wix (51334) and Purolator(14459) 9688 equivalents and 3.15" is the OD they list. So using that, ~1/2" difference in diameter between the two. One day I may absolutely confirm the 9688 won't screw on all the way. But I'm pretty sure even if it fits inside the outer ring, (doubtful imo) it won't screw all the way down at the base. And, as the 7317 fits great and all the filter needed, never felt so inclined. So stick with the 6607, 7317 or equivalents, rest easy.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Walmart says my order for the two ph 6607's is delayed. The local store website says no ph6607's in stock. It is too late in the day to order a different filter and still get it today so as much as I wanted to avoid actually going to WM I will have to set foot in the store tomorrow to pick up Tough Guards instead. I cancelled the WM online order. Now I can either go to the trouble of going to WM or run to the AAP up the street from my house and get the new Fram Force. AAP will be more money but less hassle and the Fram Force is supposed to be the same as a Tough Guard anyway. Next time I have to change oil I am not ordering anything online. And if I ever want to compare diffetent oil filters I am doing that in person too.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Koainn]

The filter bypass setting does have something to do with the car, but it's not the only factor as you have eluded to. The filter bypass setting has to be based on the highest flowing oil pump and recommended oil viscosity based on the most demanding vehicle in the total group that the oil filter is specified for. For instance, if vehicle XYZ was specified to use 10W-40 oil and had an oil pump that put out 12 GPM at oil pump pressure relief, then the filter bypass valve better be designed for that situation. This is why there are special application filters with very high bypass valve settings (around 23 PSI) like the ones for Subarus that have very high flowing oil pumps. The oil filter better be designed to also be able to take full delta-p (bypass valve setting) all day long without damage. That can be pretty demanding to do. The oil filter is designed around the oiling system instead of the oiling system being designed around the oil filter.

I'm sure your right about Subaru but my infiniti VQ37 has the same filter number as a Altima 4 banger and I'm pretty sure the Altima don't make 100psi regularly like the VQ,s do so don't know how true oil pump pressure has to do with deltap...same filter number even for Acura tl and dozens of other cars and motors and pumps