Buying Used BMW Checklist

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
As I do not have a BMW... and therefore do not have a VIN number - I cannot get very far with the BMWTIS system. Can someone explain what that is?


TIS=Technical Information System Sometimes CCA members chip in and buy a couple of days. Most of the time you can get the needed information elsewhere. Between my Foxwell scanner, my Carly App and a few internet sources I'm usually good to go.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by WhyMe
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by WhyMe
my experience with owning a 02 330i for 14 years and 175k miles is that don't buy one unless you can fix it yourself or have lot of money to pay a shop. all the stuff i fixed on mine were just the normal bmw stuff like cooling etc. the parts surprisingly are not that expensive so doing it myself did not cost much. pay a shop and you are gonna get shocked.

mine is old enough that it did not have too many electronics in it. i would never buy a newer bmw without a warranty.

Depends which shop? Indy is same for BMW and Toyota. Actually transverse V6 Toyota's shock people with labor hours. BMW X5 has more streamlined brake pad replacement than for example my Sienna. Take it to the dealer, well, they charge premium for premium vehicle.


i think its because a BMW regaurdless if its the lowest model is still considered by many a premium vehicle so shop charge more to repair them. a friend of mine has a 2011 X5 and was having a engine stumble issue. i told him its probably a bad coil. he was going to take it to the dealer to get it checked. i suggested a indy close to his house. my guess of a coil was correct and he had them all replaced. the coils are maybe $300 at the most. maybe an hour at the most to replace them. indy charged him $1050 for the replacement. he was actually pretty happy paying it as he was sure the dealer would be even higher.

with any out of warranty BMW i think shops know that 99% of the people that bring their car to them don't know squat about them. if they did they would just do it themselves most of the time like i did.

The indy that I take a car to in case I do not have appropriate tools, that is specializing in European vehicles, but will do others, charges one rate per hr, whether you bring it Toyota, VW, BMW, Audi, Honda etc. So, coil replacement on my Sienna will cost more than on any X5 due to nature how engine is positioned and just minivan design. Price in parts is not any different or significantly different. So, I would say your friend got charged that "stupid" tax that many pay just bcs. they drive BMW, MB, Lexus and they expect higher labor rate, and indy's are charging them. They key is your last sentence in this case. For example, I did not have time nor space and tools to do thermostat, transmission fluid drain and filter replacement (pan), transfer case fluid replacement on my X5 35d I had until last year. Indy that I take cars to charged $550 in labor for all that. Take into consideration that thermostat is 3-4hrs job on M57 engine in X5 E70. I provided parts and fluids.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
As I do not have a BMW... and therefore do not have a VIN number - I cannot get very far with the BMWTIS system. Can someone explain what that is?


You don't need a VIN, you can just search via model. It's a low level repair manual. For example the link below shows how to replace the ignition coils for my vehicle along with the steps to access all the coils if so required. It's FREE (at the moment).

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...ical-system/12-13-ignition-coil/IOMvCBMp

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Thank you... Good to know.

On a related topic, I just confirmed that if you have a manual transmission in a late model BMW (and yes, they are now few and far between) - well if you have a manual 'box, you simply cannot get replacement internals for it. If a synchro or a bearing goes south, you will need to either find a used transmission (it just blows me away how someone can say "a good, used..." *) or buy a factory-rebuilt unit from BMW (at a mega cost).

So I urge you to drop the manual transmission fluid at interval, and to NOT be hard on the synchro's, and to nurse the transmission to operating temp (as often a transmission will be "notchy" when cold. Notchy is bad... and means wear is occurring). Smooth as butter is good... Me, I would tend to double-clutch down, too...

* What I mean, above, re "good, used" is that how can anyone who is a "breaker" or a wrecker, know whether the transmission is good? You can't tell until it is installed and you drive the car... and that can take a whole lot of effort to get to that point... and you could find that it is NOT good. Also, one person's good, is another person's sh&t.

So, BMW owners, please take care of your transmissions!

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Thank you... Good to know.

On a related topic, I just confirmed that if you have a manual transmission in a late model BMW (and yes, they are now few and far between) - well if you have a manual 'box, you simply cannot get replacement internals for it. If a synchro or a bearing goes south, you will need to either find a used transmission (it just blows me away how someone can say "a good, used..." *) or buy a factory-rebuilt unit from BMW (at a mega cost).

So I urge you to drop the manual transmission fluid at interval, and to NOT be hard on the synchro's, and to nurse the transmission to operating temp (as often a transmission will be "notchy" when cold. Notchy is bad... and means wear is occurring). Smooth as butter is good... Me, I would tend to double-clutch down, too...

* What I mean, above, re "good, used" is that how can anyone who is a "breaker" or a wrecker, know whether the transmission is good? You can't tell until it is installed and you drive the car... and that can take a whole lot of effort to get to that point... and you could find that it is NOT good. Also, one person's good, is another person's sh&t.

So, BMW owners, please take care of your transmissions!


BMW in the last 15 yrs or so has never rebuilt transmissions. They don't even make them or rebuild them. The reality is that because manuals are so few and far between there are going to be even fewer transmission shops which rebuild them so there's less incentive for transmission manufacturers to make parts available for sale vis aftermarket.

In the US some shops such as Turner Motorsports do stock some parts.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl


BMW in the last 15 yrs or so has never rebuilt transmissions. They don't even make them or rebuild them. The reality is that because manuals are so few and far between there are going to be even fewer transmission shops which rebuild them so there's less incentive for transmission manufacturers to make parts available for sale vis aftermarket.

In the US some shops such as Turner Motorsports do stock some parts.


Surely BMW themselves can bring in Getrag or ZF factory remanufactured or rebuilt manual boxes!!!???? I mean, manual transmissions btw.

 

[jeepman3071]

Have you priced out a good rebuild lately? There is a reason they don't sell parts. Just buying a new trans and swapping it in is usually much cheaper than the labor to have someone pull it all apart and rebuild it properly.

The average DIY'er/wrencher who owns one of these cars would rather spend a couple hundred bucks on a used trans that works than a new unit or a rebuild. If it doesn't work, take it back, or find another one for a couple hundred bucks.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

And if you're really fussy about how the transmission feels - what do you do?

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
And if you're really fussy about how the transmission feels - what do you do?


Then you will have some expensive shop bills in the future to get it just the way you want it. I say that as someone who is very particular about things like this, so I know exactly what you mean. The reality is that cost and efficiency are what dictate business decisions not necessarily what is "better". For the people like you and me who care about the little details, there are millions who do not. Another issue is even if the parts are available, finding someone who knows what they are doing can be impossible. I know in the Jeep world if a transmission goes bad you are better off just buying a lower mileage one on ebay and swapping it in, since the chances of a rebuilder getting it close to factory specs are pretty slim, especially a place like Jasper that is more about quantity than quality.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Agreed. Luckily for my Mazda6 the C66M-R transaxle internal parts are shared across the CX3, CX5, Mazda3, and Mazda6.... and are available. A person would need a 20T hydraulic press, arbor plates, bearing splitter, and a couple of minor jigs to fully disassemble, rebuild.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl


BMW in the last 15 yrs or so has never rebuilt transmissions. They don't even make them or rebuild them. The reality is that because manuals are so few and far between there are going to be even fewer transmission shops which rebuild them so there's less incentive for transmission manufacturers to make parts available for sale vis aftermarket.

In the US some shops such as Turner Motorsports do stock some parts.


Surely BMW themselves can bring in Getrag or ZF factory remanufactured or rebuilt manual boxes!!!???? I mean, manual transmissions btw.


IIRC generally speaking all replacement BMW transmissions are rebuilt units (new internals, re-used housing). The take rate for manuals in the US is so low (less than 2 percent?) that BMW is phasing them out of even more models. It just costs too much $$ to have the 6-spd version certified for sale in the US.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl


BMW in the last 15 yrs or so has never rebuilt transmissions. They don't even make them or rebuild them. The reality is that because manuals are so few and far between there are going to be even fewer transmission shops which rebuild them so there's less incentive for transmission manufacturers to make parts available for sale vis aftermarket.

In the US some shops such as Turner Motorsports do stock some parts.


Surely BMW themselves can bring in Getrag or ZF factory remanufactured or rebuilt manual boxes!!!???? I mean, manual transmissions btw.


IIRC generally speaking all replacement BMW transmissions are rebuilt units (new internals, re-used housing). The take rate for manuals in the US is so low (less than 2 percent?) that BMW is phasing them out of even more models. It just costs too much $$ to have the 6-spd version certified for sale in the US.
IMO it will be a very sad day in the automotive world when BMW drops manual transmissions

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl


BMW in the last 15 yrs or so has never rebuilt transmissions. They don't even make them or rebuild them. The reality is that because manuals are so few and far between there are going to be even fewer transmission shops which rebuild them so there's less incentive for transmission manufacturers to make parts available for sale vis aftermarket.

In the US some shops such as Turner Motorsports do stock some parts.


Surely BMW themselves can bring in Getrag or ZF factory remanufactured or rebuilt manual boxes!!!???? I mean, manual transmissions btw.


IIRC generally speaking all replacement BMW transmissions are rebuilt units (new internals, re-used housing). The take rate for manuals in the US is so low (less than 2 percent?) that BMW is phasing them out of even more models. It just costs too much $$ to have the 6-spd version certified for sale in the US.
IMO it will be a very sad day in the automotive world when BMW drops manual transmissions

It already did in the US in non-M models. It is absolute atrocity. And used ones are hot. Last week I saw 2006 330xi manual in Denver. Nice condition, no scratches, leather does not have any cracks etc. 93k. Was posted in the morning, I called around 2pm to see how to make deposit and someone already did. Guy sarcastically asked me: do you want automatic?

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

I'm a dinosaur for still liking them. OTOH, there is such a thing as "effortless power" that an automatic transmission affords you when you have a decent size of engine (or should I say, decently-powered engine). And in this regard, I am torn between a dual-clutch manual versus a torque converter conventional automatic. The conventional A/T CAN downshift more nicely (I think Porsche's PDK is the single outlier, here.... apparently EXCELLENT). The conventional automatic is better in traffic, for sure. The dual clutch manual is quicker upshifting by a very small margin these days. Finally, I would venture to say that the conventional automatic is easier to rebuild and easier to add micro-bypass-filtration to and similarly easier to add auxiliary cooling to. The best of the conventional automatics, these days, is hard to fault... very few negatives other than the cost to rebuild (though a pittance compared to a dual-clutch automated manual).

I tend to think that in a moderately powered car, the 6MT or 5MT can be decent... depending on what you want. Engagement... yes!

Finally, in traffic, if you granny-shift your manual 'box... you are liable to be bunted from behind by the guy behind you.... At least, you would make the individual PO'd at you.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by wag123

IMO it will be a very sad day in the automotive world when BMW drops manual transmissions


You mean for the 2% or less of the people that actually bought them? Can't make all the people happy all the time. I drove a manual for years. Don't miss it one bit. One of those things that times have passed by like 8 track tapes, cassette tapes, cd players etc. Get used to 7-9 speed auto transmissions, CVTs and I don't think you even need a transmission in an electric car.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by wag123
IMO it will be a very sad day in the automotive world when BMW drops manual transmissions

BMW currently makes one model well-suited for a manual transmission, the 2er. The rest of the line up is too soft, too muted, too large. I think the ZF8 is perfect for the cars BMW presently makes. All the way up to the E90 generation they were perfect with a manual, and once the F30 was released the manual transmission stopped making sense.

As an aside, my friends in Germany always made fun of my 750i because it didn't have a manual transmission. I made fun of them because they were missing half their engine.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by wag123
IMO it will be a very sad day in the automotive world when BMW drops manual transmissions

BMW currently makes one model well-suited for a manual transmission, the 2er. The rest of the line up is too soft, too muted, too large. I think the ZF8 is perfect for the cars BMW presently makes. All the way up to the E90 generation they were perfect with a manual, and once the F30 was released the manual transmission stopped making sense.

As an aside, my friends in Germany always made fun of my 750i because it didn't have a manual transmission. I made fun of them because they were missing half their engine.

But they had such gems with manual as 730d. E38 with M57 engine and 6 speed was a blast!

 

[MCompact]

Up until my M235i, every one of "my" BMW s has had three pedals. The thing is, on the track the ZF 8HP shifts exactly the same way I would 99% of the time. I still like a manual behind engines that make maximum torque at high rpm(such as the M42 in my Club Sport), but with the N55 in the 2er peak torque is made from virtually off idle so I'm good with letting the 8HP do the heavy lifting. Still, If I ever get an M2C it will have three pedals(and no hole in the roof).

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by wag123
IMO it will be a very sad day in the automotive world when BMW drops manual transmissions

BMW currently makes one model well-suited for a manual transmission, the 2er. The rest of the line up is too soft, too muted, too large. I think the ZF8 is perfect for the cars BMW presently makes. All the way up to the E90 generation they were perfect with a manual, and once the F30 was released the manual transmission stopped making sense.

As an aside, my friends in Germany always made fun of my 750i because it didn't have a manual transmission. I made fun of them because they were missing half their engine.

I thought that for the biggest sedans in Germany, automatics really, really prevail. I think the German car buying public is changing. Also, with Porsche's, I think they big-time go for PDK's... and these days rarely go for the 7 speed (in the 911) or the 6 speeds in many of the other Porsche's.

In the US especially, I think there is a stalwart contingent that embrace manual transmissions.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Up until my M235i, every one of "my" BMW s has had three pedals. The thing is, on the track the ZF 8HP shifts exactly the same way I would 99% of the time. I still like a manual behind engines that make maximum torque at high rpm(such as the M42 in my Club Sport), but with the N55 in the 2er peak torque is made from virtually off idle so I'm good with letting the 8HP do the heavy lifting. Still, If I ever get an M2C it will have three pedals(and no hole in the roof).

The ZF 8HP is a brilliant automatic... and I think BMW themselves seem to indicate that the conventional torque converter automatic will soon enough be the go-to performance transmission over the DCT. For one, the 8AT trans can take more torque, I believe. What's more - and this is something I will never understand - a DCT or a PDK or a DSG - i.e. a dual-clutch automated manual - is really, really easy on the synchro's - UPSHIFTING - but super, super hard on the synchro's when a "downshift artist" starts flipping the down-paddle at high road-speed. Dual clutch automated manuals do NOT double-declutch... and so they totally, totally rely on the synchro's - and they are brutal in engaging the speed-gears, by way of making those synchro's work hard! Not brutal in engaging the driveline... but brutal on the speed-gears (if you know what I mean). I guess in retrospect I do understand that people want to flip the paddles... and that they do NOT have a sense of "mechanical sympathy" for the car 'cause they do not really understand what is happening internally. Oh, to finally add this: a conventional performance automatic IS quicker than a dual-clutch automated manual - in Downshifting... at all times. If a DCT has to downshift, say, 2 gears... then it takes 'way longer. The way a conventional automatic downshifts - is pure poetry, in terms of the feel. "The car gets a new set of legs - and it MOTORS!"

Finally, I totally agree with you that the character of the car and the character of the drive-train (i.e. "cammy" versus not) really, really plays a role in whether the car is suited to a manual versus an automatic.