Burning oil - Ideas before i spend the cash

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liquified56

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New member here.. looks like i finally found the right place. Im having issues with my 93 civic Dx 1.5 16valve. Its a work driver/winter car i picked up for cheap about a month ago so i dont want to dump a bunch of $ into it. has 141k on it, im trying to figure out whether im burning oil from the rings or valve guides/seals. Changed the oil (10-30 Dino), PCV valve, plugs (all carbonized badly), ran seafoam through the gas,oil, and vacum lines, lucas oil treatment. Im burning about 1-1.25 quarts of oil every tank (300 miles). heres my symptoms

smokes for about 10-20 seconds on startup
smokes a little normal driving but not major
at 4,000rpm blows a cloud
Did compression test at 4 cranks 180-190psi each cylinder (dry test)

im leaning torwards guides or seals due to the compression test results

Anyone know of a decent oil mix/remedy to cut oil consumption?

thanks for any help
Brett
 
Have you checked the valves?

I'd probably adjust those and then run a thick oil: 10W-40, 15W-40, 20W-50; whatever you can get away with in your climate.
 
I was thinking about a thicker oil.. but climate is the whole issue.. northern IL weather can get cold and i dont want the oil to be too thick its 23 degrees out right now and i guarantee i'll be driving it in - weather this winter.
 
If I had to guess, I'd say your valve seals are shot or you've got a serious gasket leak somewhere. If it was the rings, your compression wouldn't be nearly that high. Is any of the oil making it to the pavement where you park? You've checked for other leaks?

High mileage oil might help a little. Changing the seals wouldn't be a huge expense if it turns out to be the problem.

Good luck!
 
Nothing on the ground when i park.. no major leaks on the engine or pan. Its definitly going out the exhaust.

I'm hoping its just the valve seals... just popping off the valve cover taking off the retainers/springs and putting new ones in.. 2 hours tops.. that would be an easy fix. Rings is what i was mostly worried about because i heard on hondas you could get a good compression test but your 2nd ring (oil seal ring) it wont test.
 
Does it smoke when accelerating, or decelerating? Usually, if it smoke at first start up and spews smoke when you decelerate, and then accelerate again, it's the valve seals (heavy vacuum pulls oil past them). If it blows smoke when you have a heavy load on the engine, it's the rings.

Might try some Restore. It has a good following. Might thicken the oil too much if it got really cold out, but a strong battery would mitigate that.
 
smokes on startup.. a little bit more then avg normal driving.. and blows a cloud over 4,000rpm accelerating.
 
IDK that engine but if you have 16 valve maybe the cams are on top of the valves and that's more work getting at the valve seals than you would expect with a pushrod or SOHC motor.
 
Originally Posted By: liquified56
I was thinking about a thicker oil.. but climate is the whole issue.. northern IL weather can get cold and i dont want the oil to be too thick its 23 degrees out right now and i guarantee i'll be driving it in - weather this winter.


I consider the Low Temperature Pumping Viscosity spec (from SAE J300) to be the minimum cold-start temperature for any grade, so I'd base my decision on that:

10W-40: -30C (-22F)
15W-40: -25C (-13F)
20W-50: -20C (-4F)
 
Rings and valve guides/seals are the most commonly CITED causes for burning oil... but are not the only possible causes. One thing that I've seen several times- and suspect might be the problem in your case- is sludge. If the engine is sludged (and it doesn't HAVE to be all that bad, depending on engine design), the sludge can block oil-drain passages and interfere with the oil draining back. Too much oil in the top of the engine will result in the PCV valve sucking lots of that oil right into the engine. Also, all that extra oil can make it past the valve seals (which are really more of a 'controlled leak' than a seal). You MIGHT be able to determine whether or not this is the problem by temporarily disconnecting the PCV valve and plugging the line... but the only way to be sure is to remove the valve cover and have a look.
 
hondas like oem pcv valves, my sons 95 accord was using 2-3 quarts @ 5000 mi. after doing a little research here and talking to local honda dealer everyone had the same question; when you bought the car did you replace oem pcv with aftermarket? well i had and after the same answer multiple times i ordered honda pcv and oil consumption has all but been eliminated.
 
Originally Posted By: onion
Rings and valve guides/seals are the most commonly CITED causes for burning oil... but are not the only possible causes. One thing that I've seen several times- and suspect might be the problem in your case- is sludge. If the engine is sludged (and it doesn't HAVE to be all that bad, depending on engine design), the sludge can block oil-drain passages and interfere with the oil draining back. Too much oil in the top of the engine will result in the PCV valve sucking lots of that oil right into the engine. Also, all that extra oil can make it past the valve seals (which are really more of a 'controlled leak' than a seal). You MIGHT be able to determine whether or not this is the problem by temporarily disconnecting the PCV valve and plugging the line... but the only way to be sure is to remove the valve cover and have a look.


thats my next step... i havent had anything up top taken apart yet. time to take a look.

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Liquified56 - 2 hours tops? OK, Superman. Keep dreaming.
It's not going to pan out that way.
Remember the cams and actuators?


cant a guy dream... lol.. im used to V8's so a SOHC head is like a dream come true.. ok maybe not 2 hours but nothing compared to what im used to
wink.gif
 
I would try adding one quart of MMO to your oil. I wouldnot worry about over filling it in your situation since it will be low in again realy fast. I would start with a 5W40 or 10W40 dino oil since you putting a quart of MMO in it the higher viscosity will not be an issue. Every 1000 miles drop a bottle of MMO in and in between just keep toping off.

If this does not do it then next step is to try a something that can actually soften the seals back up to OEM like condition like Auto-RX.Someone will probably tell yout o add a bottle of Brake fluid 500 miles before you change the oil but that could do as much harm as good. It will swell the [censored] out of the seals but it will do it to all the seals in the engine. This means that even seals that do not need to be swelled could end up being swelled. If you want to use something to reconditionthe seals use a product designed for it not brake fluid. I would try products that do not thicken the oil. So try stop leak type formula's that are liguid and can be shaken in the bottle not thick ones like Lucas. The increased viscosity does nothing for you if you glue the rings up with Lucas.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
IDK that engine but if you have 16 valve maybe the cams are on top of the valves and that's more work getting at the valve seals than you would expect with a pushrod or SOHC motor.

A Civic DX has a SOHC engine, but it also has 16 valves.

One cam goes through the center of the head, and rocker arms actuate the intake and exhaust valves.

I just ship off problematic cylinder heads to a machinist, so I am not familiar with what it takes to replace valve seals.

EDIT: Also, sometimes the valve guides wear out and destroy the valve seals, and will destroy the new valve seals quickly...
Acording to auto textbooks.
 
Last edited:
Well, seals are worth a shot if you are going to do it yourself.
Costs will be minimal.
Take it easy when tightening things! Japanese stuff is great, but does NOT like overtightening. Use a torque wrench.
 
I like JB's advice. Start with 10W-40 HM oil and a quart og MMO, to try and clean out sludge or deposits that my be causing/aggravating the problem.

If oil burning continues, for one of your top-off's add a can of 'Restore', and see if that helps 'seal up' the engine.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I like JB's advice. Start with 10W-40 HM oil and a quart og MMO, to try and clean out sludge or deposits that my be causing/aggravating the problem.

If oil burning continues, for one of your top-off's add a can of 'Restore', and see if that helps 'seal up' the engine.


So do I... picked up a 5qt jug of 10W-40 dino and 2 bottles of MMO on the way home from work tonight.. i'll go a couple rounds with it and see if it helps.
 
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