Brutal article about Hailie Deegan

Sorry this had to devolve into a females can't race thread. I just thought it interesting that the writer bluntly laid it out that a person who's 2nd season record was worse than her 1st really shouldn't be advancing to the next series. Her truck team had equipment that was capable of better finishes than she got and you'd at least expect her 2nd year to equal or be slightly better than her first year. Never mind being female she just ain't got the goods it looks like. But she brings $.
Jeff, I hope you realize I wasn't trashing women. See my posts. I cited several who did exceptionally well. It's just that I don't think Hailie Deegan will be one of them, to which I know you agree.

Scott
 
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..... didn't Danica earn the Daytona 500 pole one year, and win an IndyCar race in Japan?

Scott
Yes she did. She had the fastest car on the track that year.... For 1 whole lap. Where did she finish?

She won in Japan for 2 reasons. Everyone in front of her ran out of gas. And several of the top teams never went to that race. She didn't out drive a soul.

Look, every time this conversation comes up every few months, it keeps hitting the same wall. (No pun intended).

Women do not have the same physical strength and endurance as men. And they never will. They are at a distinct physical disadvantage.

We had to lower the physical standards for police and firemen when women wanted on the department. Otherwise most all would have failed..... Just like they do in racing.

There are women who can place kick field goals from the 50 yard line. Put them in the NFL and see how they do with a half dozen 385 pound lineman jumping up and down, waiting to turn them into a postage stamp every Sunday.

It's the same thing with Danica qualifying #1, then finishing in the bottom 20 most of the time. It's never going to happen, regardless of how much people want to believe it will.
 
Put them in a car they have to actually turn and see what happens.

I love that you quoted my reply.

Adjust the color a bit...

Brittany, Ashley, and Courtney Force would like a word, right after Leah Pruett and Erica Enders.

This is the part where you say drag racing isn't real racing.

It's like I'm a fortune teller and knew where you would go next.
 
Yes she did. She had the fastest car on the track that year.... For 1 whole lap. Where did she finish?

She won in Japan for 2 reasons. Everyone in front of her ran out of gas. And several of the top teams never went to that race. She didn't out drive a soul.

Look, every time this conversation comes up every few months, it keeps hitting the same wall. (No pun intended).

Women do not have the same physical strength and endurance as men. And they never will. They are at a distinct physical disadvantage.

We had to lower the physical standards for police and firemen when women wanted on the department. Otherwise most all would have failed..... Just like they do in racing.

There are women who can place kick field goals from the 50 yard line. Put them in the NFL and see how they do with a half dozen 385 pound lineman jumping up and down, waiting to turn them into a postage stamp every Sunday.

It's the same thing with Danica qualifying #1, then finishing in the bottom 20 most of the time. It's never going to happen, regardless of how much people want to believe it will.
I was testing you, Bill. Danica was running second behind Castroneves when he ran out of fuel, handing her the win. Everyone else was behind her.

And with respect to her IndyCar season championship standings; 2005 she was 12th, 2006 she was 6th, 2007 was 7th, 2008 was 6th, 2009 was 5th, 2010 was 10th, and 2011 was 10th. And she finished 3rd in 2009 at Indy 500. Considering a 20 to 24 car field and 33 cars for Indy, yep, she was absolutely horrible. .

Scott
 
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It's like I'm a fortune teller and knew where you would go next.
Don't quit your day job just yet. This is the part where I ask you, if you are going to sit there with a straight face, and honestly tell me that you actually believe Brittany, Ashley, and Courtney Force would have rose to their prospective positions in the NHRA, (winning drivers for multi million dollar race teams), if their father was a carpet salesman, instead of the greatest single person in the history of NHRA drag racing?

Who has won 16 Championships in the NHRA, one in the IHRA, and a total of 22 Championships as a car owner. Hell, if you were better looking and more popular, and married one of his daughters, he might have even put you in one of his cars. He did it to Robert Hight.

Like it or not, that's the way NHRA Drag Racing has become. Yeah, it's "real". But it is no longer, "Run what you brung". Like it was in the 60's. Today if you have the money, and the sponsorship, (which very few have), you can drive. If you don't, you can't.... Regardless of how talented you are, or think you are. Just ask Cruz Pedregon how many seasons he sat out solely because he lacked sponsorship..... Not talent. Or Larry Dixon whose career ended abruptly for the same reason.

Frank Hawley taught the Force sisters how to "drive", the same way he taught Angelle, and several other women at his drag racing school. Before she fell into her huge Winston sponsorship that netted her 3 World Pro Stock Motorcycle championships..... That, along with having George Bryce tuning for her.

Look, I'm not taking anything away from these gals. They're all nice, and they deserve what they have achieved. But drag racing isn't NASCAR, Formula 1, or Indy Car. And it never will be. Not when you only have to spend 2 minutes in the car with the engine running. And actually "drive" it for 3 to 4 seconds.....

Not baking in it for 4+ hours in 95 degree heat, and have to worry about drafting, passing, cornering, pit stops, and 39 other cars and drivers out there, who would just love to see you end up as a wet spot on the wall.
 
And with respect to her IndyCar season championship standings; 2005 she was 12th, 2006 she was 6th, 2007 was 7th, 2008 was 6th, 2009 was 5th, 2010 was 10th, and 2011 was 10th. And she finished 3rd in 2009 at Indy 500. Considering a 20 to 24 car field and 33 cars for Indy, yep, she was absolutely horrible. .

Scott
Well if she was so fabulous, why did she leave to set the world on fire in NASCAR?... Where in 7 years, and a total of 191 races, she never managed a single win. And in fact had exactly 0 top 5 finishes. And only 7 finishes in the top 10. And had an average finish in 191 races in 23.5 position.... All with the best equipment that money can buy.

And with a total of 53,561 laps driven, she only managed to lead 64 of them. And most of those were only because the leaders pitted leaving her out there for a couple of laps.

Again, Danica deserves everything she's got. She earned every penny of it, same as everyone else. She brought a LOT of money in for her sponsors, and herself, and to the sport in general.

She was immensely popular, and was far more financially successful, than she was on the track. For her it doesn't matter because she's laughing all the way to the bank.... Just don't tell me how talented she was as a driver. Statistics work both ways.

https://www.racing-reference.info/driver/Danica_Patrick/
 
Billt460 I think at some point... A woman will eventually have the real deal talent to win in Nascar and Indy car.

Yeah I agree Danica underachieved while running in Nascar. No doubt.

Though in that Daytona 500 race in which she won the pole.... She was in the top 3 with like less than 2 laps to go and she was in the top 10 all day long.... Finished 7th.

But again... She definitely underachieved with truly good cars that she had.

Side note here... I remember reading in Sports Illustrated in the very late 90s and the #1 NCAA women's college basketball team Tennessee got beat badly.... But a random collection of guys from the University of Tennessee campus....

Now granted... I'd bet darn good money on a campus that had 30,000 or more students on it that those guys were NOT bums... They all were probably daggone good athletes aka a darn good percentage of them could dunk a basketball easily and I'd bet all of them played well in their high school years.

Eventually the Tennessee lady's got better and better against those guys and became competitive and then they were able to beat them. Pat Summit did that to help get her lady Vols better against other women's teams.

Still.... Does anyone think a random collection of guys on a big-time college campus back in the mid to late 90s could have beaten say Duke, North Carolina and or Kentucky's men's NCAA basketball teams???

I highly, highly, highly don't think so. I am sorry but I don't think random guys would be very good against Antawn Jamison, or Vince Carter, or Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer etc etc etc....
 
Billt460 I think at some point... A woman will eventually have the real deal talent to win in Nascar and Indy car.

Yeah I agree Danica underachieved while running in Nascar. No doubt......
It's not just Danica. And she shouldn't be the only one to be held up as an example here. Deegan, Natalie Decker, and to a slightly lesser degree, Jennifer Jo Cobb, all pretty much did nothing with excellent equipment. Except to destroy the bulk of it in wrecks.

In years past drivers like Janet Guthrie, Sarah Fisher, and Lyn St. James all did not have the same level of equipment the above women had. And their results reflected that.

But even if they had it, it's extremely doubtful they would have excelled any better than Danica or the others. And as far as there being fewer women than men in motorsports, while that's certainly true, there is a reason for that as well. Most simply do not have it.

I honestly believe NASCAR missed a huge opportunity to not open up a women's division. It's obvious why they didn't. They would have had to fight and contend with all of the pro women's groups. Who right away would have barged in, screaming with the whole, "It's "sexist" to think that women are NOT just as good as men", crap.

But it would have been successful for much the same reason Danica was financially successful. They would have attracted a large fan base. Much the same as the LPGA has in golf. And the same as women's professional tennis has. Along with all of the female divisions in the Olympics. From track and field, to bobsledding and Luge.

Anyone who speaks out about this from the opposite point of view, like John McEnroe, and to a much lesser degree, people like myself, will always be met with resistance. Or else outright attacked for taking an unpopular position. That's because the truth about this kind of stuff is becoming harder to take. And even harder to accept. All due to the politically correct nonsense that endures today.

But none of that makes it any less factual. Will we someday have a female Indy 500 or Daytona 500 winner? While you can't say it's not possible, it is certainly not probable. But then again, neither is winning the Powerball. But that doesn't stop the tickets from selling, because people want to believe it will happen.
 
Now, if you really want to put all of this into perspective, take a good look at the list of women drivers in the link below. (Scroll down to "NASCAR Cup Series", and go from there).

75 women, (some listed more than once in 3 seperate classes of racing), and not one single win among all of them.... NOT 1.

And all of this takes place in a 72 year time span, from all the way back from 1950, to the present. Now you can call me crazy, but I'm going way out on a limb here, and going to predict the future isn't going to look any more promising.

Because absolutely nothing has changed. Except for the fact people have now been led by the nose of political correctness, to believe it somehow will.

 
I am not going to pile on the young girl the written article is spot on I believe she will have to perform this year or she won’t make it any further. I generally watch every truck race and it can absolutely be the best race of the weekend she’s barely talked about anymore nor should she during the race as she’s never running in top ten or up front fighting for the win.
 
I'd like to see the daughter of a Jimmy Johnson or Kyle Larson or whoever who shows talent with the proven DNA get the opportunity and experience from early on.
Agree, Jeff. But I'll add Josef Newgrden's future daughter to your idea. I think women will be better suited to IndyCar than NASCAR. I think IndyCar requires more finesse, especially on the ovals.

At any rate, there will be a time when some young woman shows up and amazes. It will be fun to watch.

Scott
 
I'd like to see the daughter of a Jimmy Johnson or Kyle Larson or whoever who shows talent with the proven DNA get the opportunity and experience from early on.
I really think DNA or the gene pool doesn't make much difference. The most recent proof you have of that is Mick Schumacher. Who was just cut loose from the Haas F1 Team for general lack of overall performance, and too many expensive wrecks from overly aggressive driving.

He's the son of one of the greatest Formula 1 drivers to ever exist on this planet. But none of it seemed to matter. Granted Michael Schumacher is in no position to coach him due to his injuries. But these F1 teams have plenty of well seasoned talent available, to groom any natural ability these young drivers may possess. It doesn't appear that young Mick possessed much.

He was only picked up as a development driver by the Mercedes Team, because of that teams personal obligation to the Schumacher family. For what Michael personally meant to that team, and to Toto Wolff, Mercedes Team Principal.

While it's possible he could develop into a starting Formula 1 driver at a later date, it's rather doubtful at this point that will happen. And if it does the odds are heavily against him ever winning an F1 Championship. And it's certainly tough to be, "bred from better stock", than he was.
 
I first heard of Deegan while checking out Tony Stewart's SRX racing series. Was amused watching her go toe to toe with Paul Tracy in the pits and schooling Helio C. on driving. The author of the article makes a good argument that her results don't justify a better ride this season, she brings big sponsor money and social media exposure to the table. Nothing new really, it's how F1 has worked forever and is openly discussed over there. If you know who her dad is you either love or hate him, but gotta say her brother Haiden is the real deal on motocross bikes with a factory Yamaha ride at 16.

Some will say this is a male/female thing, that may be in the background but she likely just doesn't have the talent.

The new Danica. Wouldn't have a ride if she was a 4.
 
I was testing you, Bill. Danica was running second behind Castroneves when he ran out of fuel, handing her the win. Everyone else was behind her.

And with respect to her IndyCar season championship standings; 2005 she was 12th, 2006 she was 6th, 2007 was 7th, 2008 was 6th, 2009 was 5th, 2010 was 10th, and 2011 was 10th. And she finished 3rd in 2009 at Indy 500. Considering a 20 to 24 car field and 33 cars for Indy, yep, she was absolutely horrible.
What's wrong with those stats . I'm sure there were alot of Male Drivers that wished they had those numbers.
 
What's wrong with those stats . I'm sure there were alot of Male Drivers that wished they had those numbers.
My quote is incomplete. What happened to the "" I had immediately after the word "horrible"?

Here is my complete comment:

"And with respect to her IndyCar season championship standings; 2005 she was 12th, 2006 she was 6th, 2007 was 7th, 2008 was 6th, 2009 was 5th, 2010 was 10th, and 2011 was 10th. And she finished 3rd in 2009 at Indy 500. Considering a 20 to 24 car field and 33 cars for Indy, yep, she was absolutely horrible. ."

Scott
 
Shirley Muldowney did pretty well for herself, but I agree drag racing is a particularly different form of automobile racing. Dannyka is horrible as a color analyst, comes across as dumb as a box of rocks.
 
The below taken from Wiki :
Maria Grazia "Lella" Lombardi (26 March 1941 – 3 March 1992) was an Italian racing driver who participated in 17 Formula One World Championship Grands Prix.
Lombardi had an eventful driving career, aside from Formula One. Lombardi was the first woman to qualify and compete in the Race of Champions in Brands Hatch and raced in sports cars. She won the 6 Hours of Pergusa and the 6 Hours of Vallelunga. Lombardi's story has impacted generations of racers. Her experience has shaped the involvement of women in racing and how people perceive females in the racing industry.

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I think Danica had real talent and she was as large and physically fit as many of the male drivers in F1, Nascar, etc. I think the tools of Nascar took delight in putting her into the wall and otherwise hampering her. As far as race wins? Many men have gone decades without winning a single race. Circling Indy at 230MPH takes a giant set of brass ones. Danica did it without a set.
 
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