Brand new engines not using oil initially?

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In the past I've noticed that small air cooled small engines always used a good bit of oil the first 50 hours of use. I've noticed that both my new mower that has a 15hp Kawasaki engine and my Honda generator both haven't used a drop since new. In the past I've noticed small engines have always used a good bit of oil for the first 20-50hrs on the engine, but these two haven't used any. I'm curious as to why that is? Is it cause they both are quality engines with cast iron sleeves or do you think it's cause they both were put under a good load in the beginning?
 
Higher quality oil now a days compared to previous years. Also it seems that more people seem to be using HD and synthetic oils, at least on BITOG
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Whimsey
 
Superior machine work the from factories that build them than was used in the past.

The "high spots" and uneven bore tapers trueness of the crank journals even the rings are just better made and as such there is less running needed before the rings seal and surfaces "mate".

"Break in" is mostly instantaneous these days. Especially with Japanese engines.

..and yes the oil is better, but thats not the main reason.

UD
 
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Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Superior machine work the from factories that build them than was used in the past.

The "high spots" and uneven bore tapers trueness of the crank journals even the rings are just better made and as such there is less running needed before the rings seal and surfaces "mate".

"Break in" is mostly instantaneous these days. Especially with Japanese engines.

..and yes the oil is better, but thats not the main reason.

UD


This in my opinion, is the correct answer. I could not have said it better.
 
As for machining is better now, one has to only look at turn of the century precision machinery to see nothing we make now is as good, or at least not better, as that. There probably is no one alive who even knows how to make or could design such wonderful machines, without looking it up on the computer. Looking it up on a computer is no substitute for decades of hard work and mastery. In fact it is amazing how it was made so well. The machining of bores etc was just as good on engines, it's just not true that newer is better. I never had new mowers use oil. But now we see reports of oil use by various auto makers including BMW. They blame it on this and that but bottom line is they use oil.
 
Even newer Chinese engines don't use oil. I've owned a couple of them that never used oil and initial oil change revealed next to no engine filings or even discoloration.

I wish I could say the same for my made in Japan Yamaha EF2000is inverter generator. That's been an oil user from day one and it doesn't matter what type, what brand, synthetic, conventional nor viscosity. It eats it at a rate of two oz. every 25 hours or so.

My only consolation is that the generator gives excellent fuel consumption. With a light load, 4 hrs. per liter is not unusual. Hopefully, the oil usage is contributing to it's efficiency.

Be happy your engine isn't using oil.
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
... one has to only look at turn of the century precision machinery to see nothing we make now is as good...

The turn of which century?... recent or Kaiser?
 
Yah I expected all kinds of sparkle when I did the first oil change on the Predator. None that I could see and the oil was clean after 25+ hrs. Its break in was a 3 hr driveway clearing at full throttle. I ran the oil all winter and a storm or 2 into the next. It uses less gas,weighs less, is quieter, and smoother. It earned its keep last winter. It has a low oil shut down and starts easily. I check it before every use and haven't had to top it off yet.
 
No doubt many things aren't made as well as they used to be- but thats a budget/skill constraint - not technology or material constraint.

The time between the machine spits out a part and a hand/human work finished it to spec quality has dropped significantly.

Compare a head porting job on a 5 axis milling machine with a hand port job of even 20 years ago - there is no contest. Same with all engine type manufacturing processes.

The most highly engineered high tolerance devices - jet engines produce more power on less fuel and last twice as long as their counterparts from 20 years ago.

When a manufacturer spend the money on the material and the machining - we end up with a more consistent and better product.

Cheap stuff has always been cheap stuff wether made by unskilled labor or old loose machines.

UD
 
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Originally Posted By: boraticus
Even newer Chinese engines don't use oil. I've owned a couple of them that never used oil and initial oil change revealed next to no engine filings or even discoloration.

I wish I could say the same for my made in Japan Yamaha EF2000is inverter generator. That's been an oil user from day one and it doesn't matter what type, what brand, synthetic, conventional nor viscosity. It eats it at a rate of two oz. every 25 hours or so.

My only consolation is that the generator gives excellent fuel consumption. With a light load, 4 hrs. per liter is not unusual. Hopefully, the oil usage is contributing to it's efficiency.

Be happy your engine isn't using oil.


Don't feel too bad about your yamaha, my honda 2000 uses about the same amount of oil and when the rings wear out I cannot bore it out like your yamaha can because of its iron bore liner - a step up from Hondas nikasil type bore lining. This feature would actually create a minimal break in time where there would really be one on the honda.

Its timing chain is also a no replacement part where I have already done a belt on one of my two Honda 2K's.
It is newer and is better designed to be a longer lasting machine than my older honda 2000's.

You bought the right small genset. One made with longevity in mind in a mostly disposable world.

You may want to take it in or give it a leak down test - just to see what you see.

UD
 
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I used to do hot rod motorcycles, cars and flat bottom drag boats. What I learned from day one is the most important thing for a good running long lasting engine is the machine work. I learned this in high school from close friend that ended up part owner and engine builder [retired] for this monster. He knows his stuff. what a tomato
 
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Even newer Chinese engines don't use oil. I've owned a couple of them that never used oil and initial oil change revealed next to no engine filings or even discoloration.

I wish I could say the same for my made in Japan Yamaha EF2000is inverter generator. That's been an oil user from day one and it doesn't matter what type, what brand, synthetic, conventional nor viscosity. It eats it at a rate of two oz. every 25 hours or so.

My only consolation is that the generator gives excellent fuel consumption. With a light load, 4 hrs. per liter is not unusual. Hopefully, the oil usage is contributing to it's efficiency.

Be happy your engine isn't using oil.


Don't feel too bad about your yamaha, my honda 2000 uses about the same amount of oil and when the rings wear out I cannot bore it out like your yamaha can because of its iron bore liner - a step up from Hondas nikasil type bore lining. This feature would actually create a minimal break in time where there would really be one on the honda.

Its timing chain is also a no replacement part where I have already done a belt on one of my two Honda 2K's.
It is newer and is better designed to be a longer lasting machine than my older honda 2000's.

You bought the right small genset. One made with longevity in mind in a mostly disposable world.

You may want to take it in or give it a leak down test - just to see what you see.

UD


You may not need to bore your Honda when/if the rings wear out. In the 2 cycle snowmobile world, it's not at all uncommon to run a few sets of rings through one jug before a re-plate is required (barring physical damage). Some hone (not the rigid type hone- just a ball or 3 leg hone to rough the surface up some- not actually remove measurable material) and some don't.

If damage is done, then re-plating is always an option. Millennium, U.S. Chrome and Eckhoff's are a few that do them.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
I used to do hot rod motorcycles, cars and flat bottom drag boats. What I learned from day one is the most important thing for a good running long lasting engine is the machine work. I learned this in high school from close friend that ended up part owner and engine builder [retired] for this monster. He knows his stuff. what a tomato


Didn't Tim Capaldi run What a Tomato for a while?

UD
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
You may not need to bore your Honda when/if the rings wear out. In the 2 cycle snowmobile world, it's not at all uncommon to run a few sets of rings through one jug before a re-plate is required (barring physical damage). Some hone (not the rigid type hone- just a ball or 3 leg hone to rough the surface up some- not actually remove measurable material) and some don't.

If damage is done, then re-plating is always an option. Millennium, U.S. Chrome and Eckhoff's are a few that do them.

Same as 2 stroke MX bikes - I rerung a nikasiled CR125 a bunch of times - then I snagged a ring in a port and had to buy a new jug vs rechrome or just reline.

Iron is still easier and cheaper for a long haul, and if given a choice Ill chose the iron liner every time.

UD
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
... one has to only look at turn of the century precision machinery to see nothing we make now is as good...

The turn of which century?... recent or Kaiser?

The first century turn after the civil war, not y2k. The china predator engines I believe are copies of the Honda. Buy a Honda engine, take it apart, make an exact copy of every part and you have essentially the same thing. Only you have no research, engineering, designing, and testing, no huge sums of money to spend. Take ideas, steal them, copy with cheap labor, and smile.
 
Originally Posted By: UncleDave

Iron is still easier and cheaper for a long haul, and if given a choice Ill chose the iron liner every time.

UD


Can't say that I disagree. Nik has it's advantages, but can also be a serious pain in the rear too.
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
The china predator engines I believe are copies of the Honda. Buy a Honda engine, take it apart, make an exact copy of every part and you have essentially the same thing. Only you have no research, engineering, designing, and testing, no huge sums of money to spend. Take ideas, steal them, copy with cheap labor, and smile.

Yup you can copy designs, and you can copy parts - but you can't make good quality parts cheap.

One indicator of the quality of material in valve train is the suggested lash inspection interval.

All the predators I've seen are 100 hour intervals - 1/3 of their Japanese counterparts.

Doesn't make it a bad generator, but it completely changes the value proposition if you intend to use the device high hours.

In growing up between 2 farms in Indiana, owning a mobile dog grooming business, and RV/toyhaulers - I've worn out more generators than most guys will ever own.

horrifically I own 6 right now....

2 - Honda 2K's
Yamaha ise300EB
Onan 4K
Onan 8K diesel
Powertech 8K diesel.

UD
 
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