Brake Fluid Changes

[reemoe23]

I'm the original owner of a '95 Saturn (167K miles) without ABS.

I've never changed the brake fluid. Should I, given the above?

Being nearly 14 years, is there any downside to doing it now? Should I simply use the turkey baster method, or maybe splurge for a Motive pressure bleeder (from what I read is a great product)?

Thanks in advance!
Ryan

 

[SZR48207]

YES. Get a motive bleeder, but just use it to pressurize the master cylinder. I don't really trust the mechanism thats supposed to feed brake fluid into the cylinder automatically.

Old brake fluid will be contaminated with moisture, such that you are compressing the fluid, so you lose brake pedal feel.

I would bleed the system, fill with clean cheap fluid like SuperTech, and then drive a week. Repeat the bleed and you're good to go.

 

[lexus114]

or,you could go to a reputable shop in your area.i dont think they charge that much to do that job.find out,if too expensive,try it yourself.

 

[mva]

Yes - get that fluid changed!

You can change the fluid using the gravity method:

Use a clean turkey baster to remove most of the old fluid in the master cylinder and replace it with new.

Then, with the lid on the master cylinder still off, open the bleeder at the wheel furthest away from the master cylinder. Fluid will slowly drain out - use a pan to catch it and keep adding new clean fluid to the master cylinder.

Without a pressure bleeder this is a very slow process but don't get distracted and let the level get low in the master cylinder. You do not want to let any air get into the system.

Keep going until you have new clean fluid coming out at that wheel. Then progress to the next closest wheel and so on, until all the brakes have clean new fluid. Top up the master cylinder, close the lid and you are done.

 

[stockrex]

another way vac out fluid is:
1. foloow the turkey baster to take out ols fluids as much as possible from reservior and then wipe it clean inside and clean any filter inside it.
2. enlist gf/wife/neighbors to watch the fluid level in the tank
3. open brake bleeder nipple a half or full turn and attach mityvac and suction out fluid till clean fluid comes out.

empty mityvac tank often and stop and refill main brake reservior often

 

[Tones]

No down side except you do not want to pump the pedal to change the fluid. I have used the gravity bleed with success. It works well just don't get in a hurry. Only open the bleed screws just enough to get the fluid flowing.

 

[mechtech2]

Turkey baster the reservoir almost empty and put clean fluid in it.
THEN bleed the brakes.
For a one person bleed, you can gravity bleed or use a Mighty Vac [or copy].
Don't let the reservoir get low while you are bleeding!

ACtually, at that vintage, first soak the bleeders in loose juice [inside and out] over a period of week or so before trying to actually bleed the system with them..

 

[cronk]

Always a good idea to change the brake fluid every 2-3 years.
Brake fluid can absorb moisture, and that moisture usually sinks to the bottom of the brake system. (the calipers and/or wheel cylinders) Once is gets in there it can cause corrosion to your calipers/wheel cyls and cause them to leak or seize up.
If there is damage done already there is no reversing it, but flushing now will slow any further deterioration. You may be ok, I would flush using the gravity method listed above, and continue that practice every couple of years. After all, brake fluid is cheap!

 

[VK56VD]

Changing brake fluid every few years is a good idea that helps keep the system clean, moisture away and a good pedal response.

However, I was once advised against by a shop owner when I owned a '92 Subaru Legacy with 140k miles on the odometer that was on its original brake fluid. He told me to leave it alone as trying to mess with it at this stage in the game can push gunk further into the calipers causing problems. Any merit to this?

Not sure if this is was a coincidence, but last year I did a full brake flush on my '99 Nissan Maxima that I purchased used. The brakes were bled once in its life before this by the previous owner. A couple weeks after the full brake flush, one of my rear calipers began sticking and I was forced to change it. Once again, not sure if the stuck caliper was caused by the full brake flush, that caused gunk into the calipers.

Anyone?

 

[The Critic]

I have a '96 Saturn SL2 with ABS, which is essentially the same car as yours.

I did my first brake fluid flush in 2007. I used two quarts of Prestone DOT3 and a "Vacula" branded vacuum bleeder.

I was never quite satisfied with the pedal feel after that flush, so about a year after (in 2008), I purchased a Motive Pressure Bleeder with the GM specific cap and did another brake flush. The fluid came out BLACK like coffee. The pressure bleeder also removed the air that the vacuum bleeder introduced.

Either shortly before or after the second brake flush, I replaced the rear pads and rotors. I noticed that one of the rear calipers had semi-sticky pistons. I wasn't sure if I was using the right tool (the cube) to retract the pistons, so I did not replace the calipers since the pads are wearing evenly. But lately I've been hearing some noise from the rear brakes, so maybe there is something wrong with the calipers.

 

[reemoe23]

I'm considering having Sears do a brake fluid exchange for $35. Seems like a great price. Should I go for it?

 

[eljefino]

I've done it to saturns with the turkey baster to start things with fresh fluid in the reservoir then a cheezy vacuum bleeder.

I've also done cars with the old helper, stroke, open, close, release, repeat method.

Great results on all.

Saturns like most cars with rear drums go unloved. Get the drums off while you still can (maybe?) and poke the adjuster with a screwdriver to see if it still turns. If you do luck out and find your drums not stuck to your hubs put a dab of antisieze on the interface.

While the rest of the car is metric, you might run into SAE fittings on the bleeder screws, eg 5/16 instead of 8mm.

If anyone from the future reads this, saturns/GMs with ABS are not the same-- Critic got lucky, kind of.

 

[mechtech2]

Spartuss - Fresh fluid is better. OK, 99.99% of the time. No way to know unless you actually change it. Massive amounts of crud in a neglected system are rare, but a change is always your best bet, by far.


Critic - Vacuum bleeding is great, but maybe if the negative pressure was too high, air was sucked by the seals in the calipers or slave cylinders. Max vacuum is not the proper technique.
Most likely, the reservoir was allowed to run too low if you had air admitted in the system with vacuum bleeding.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
I have a '96 Saturn SL2 with ABS, which is essentially the same car as yours.

I did my first brake fluid flush in 2007. I used two quarts of Prestone DOT3 and a "Vacula" branded vacuum bleeder.

I was never quite satisfied with the pedal feel after that flush, so about a year after (in 2008), I purchased a Motive Pressure Bleeder with the GM specific cap and did another brake flush. The fluid came out BLACK like coffee. The pressure bleeder also removed the air that the vacuum bleeder introduced.



Critic: What's up? The trick to using a vacuum bleeder is to not pump it up all the way and clean the bleeder with some steel wool before you slip the hose on. It should very slowly draw the fluid out. My motive extractor works great. Also, when you retract the caliper piston make sure the bleeder is open so all the [censored] fluid goes out versus getting pushed up in the system.

 

[novaracer69]

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92924

this is what i use!

 

[calvin1]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Critic: What's up? The trick to using a vacuum bleeder is to not pump it up all the way and clean the bleeder with some steel wool before you slip the hose on. It should very slowly draw the fluid out. My motive extractor works great. Also, when you retract the caliper piston make sure the bleeder is open so all the [censored] fluid goes out versus getting pushed up in the system.


If that's the case then why not let it just gravity bleed? Is the vacuum really contributing anything usefull?

 

[Ken2]

Originally Posted By: Spartuss
Changing brake fluid every few years is a good idea that helps keep the system clean, moisture away and a good pedal response.

However, I was once advised against by a shop owner when I owned a '92 Subaru Legacy with 140k miles on the odometer that was on its original brake fluid. He told me to leave it alone as trying to mess with it at this stage in the game can push gunk further into the calipers causing problems. Any merit to this?

Not sure if this is was a coincidence, but last year I did a full brake flush on my '99 Nissan Maxima that I purchased used. The brakes were bled once in its life before this by the previous owner. A couple weeks after the full brake flush, one of my rear calipers began sticking and I was forced to change it. Once again, not sure if the stuck caliper was caused by the full brake flush, that caused gunk into the calipers.

Anyone?

Here are the tradeoffs. You decide.

Brake fluid is DESIGNED to absorb moisture. Moisture will get into the system from the atmosphere, and if it isn't absorbed it'll settle to the bottom of the calipers and cause rust.

Brake fluid that contains moisture has a much lower boiling point than new, dry brake fluid. Under the heat of heavy emergency or hard downhill braking the heat might cause the brake fluid to vaporize, your pedal goes to the floor, and your vehicle has no stopping power except the parking brake (which will soon overheat the lining). I've seen newspaper articles of two fatality wrecks locally where this has happened, and have one friend who had it happen and got stopped without a wreck, just soiled shorts. After the system cools the brake pedal feels normal...that's the clue.

Or, risk flushing the fluid and getting a speck of crud into a brake piston and have a sticky caliper which is easy to replace.

 

[tom slick]

Vaccuum works fine, is fast, and does not introduce air into the system. the only area "open" to air is the bleeder screw and if you see air bubbles (when the system has been sealed) they are mixing at the bleed screw outside of the caliper.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: calvin1
Originally Posted By: PT1
Critic: What's up? The trick to using a vacuum bleeder is to not pump it up all the way and clean the bleeder with some steel wool before you slip the hose on. It should very slowly draw the fluid out. My motive extractor works great. Also, when you retract the caliper piston make sure the bleeder is open so all the [censored] fluid goes out versus getting pushed up in the system.


If that's the case then why not let it just gravity bleed? Is the vacuum really contributing anything usefull?


Yes, much faster than gravity.