Bose headphones

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I am wondering how any audiophile could not love them. Simple, no bulky equipment, and outstanding sound.


Because Bose pales next to even a moderately high-end home audio rig to my ears. I don't need their plastic fantastic and gimmicks (all the way back to the hokey space-eating 901 that needed very un-simple EQ boxes to "correct" their roller-coaster native response curve). At least Matt Polk pointed his early arrays in the right direction.

They lack musical detail, their sound staging and placement presentation is a joke, and their lack of tonal range, depth and nuance is horrendous to this listener. They're poster children for the boom and sizzle impaired who've only known Pioneer rack systems and never heard better. How's that for a start?

I'll tolerate bulk and mass (and heat and vacuum tubes) for superior sonics. I'll take my Thiels and big Classe or Threshold over whatever Bose setup you can come up with. I'll take a 50 year old Fisher tube receiver and a pair of Klipchorns over any Bose setup you can come up with. I'll take my Marantz 2230 in the garage over any Bose setup you can come up with. Heck, I'll take most old German table radios over most Bose systems. Ever heard a fully restored Grundig, Blau or Telefunken sing next to a Bose radio?

That's all my opinion obviously (so they can't sue me like they have so many other industry critics). But there are legions of other hard-core audio enthusiasts who share a similar opinion. We all know the phrase.

And obviously, there are probably millions of Bose owners with their little boxes who have very different opinions and love them.

For mass-market buyers, who are otherwise looking at a Sony mini or a mobile device at the Best Buy, the Bose is competitive in sonics, if not in price.

And the hobby has so changed over the years. iPlayers, compressed-digital downloads and earbuds are now the standard for the kids. Most don't even know what a vinyl record is, let alone sounds like. So Bose is probably a good fit for the modern 2012 lifestyle, and not what us dinosaurs listen to.

So I'll follow my own cardinal audio rule: if you think Bose (or any other Brand X) sounds great to you, then it sounds great. It's your system and no one has to like it but you. Enjoy the music.

I won't disagree with anyone as to their own system.

But now you know how some audio hobbyists with substantial home systems just don't like Bose.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
And to the standard bearers for the "Bose Hate Club": Sound quality is so subjective that you might want to hear the setup first before condemning it. What one person thinks is awesome may sound like total garbage to another one.

That is a good point. But to be able to help determine what is "awesome" and what is "garbage", it typically helps to audition two systems (Bose and reputable non-Bose in similar price range) back to back. Only then you'd be able to make an educated decision for yourself.

Bose demo rooms don't allow you to compare against quality systems of other manufacturers for a reason.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I am wondering how any audiophile could not love them. Simple, no bulky equipment, and outstanding sound.


Because Bose pales next to even a moderately high-end home audio rig to my ears....just don't like Bose.


Bravo to you. Your contempt comes through clearly.

But I PROMISE you if you heard the system in just my MBR, which is simply two ADAPTIQ speakers and a sub under the bed you'd feel differently. My good friend Neil is a ridiculously dedicated audiophile with a fantastic 30k home setup with racks of gear and huge monster speakers and he stands in complete awe of these mighty mini Bose's. I'm no youngster, and I've owned massive rack mounted systems and wasted many dollars on audio equipment for sure!

A little note: 901's, which I owned in high school, are hardly representative of Bose today. And racks of hot equipment and giant speakers are ugly and pretentious, not really needed. How many Bose systems have you heard in a HOME, especially with a professional installation? What most people hear is a cheapy Home theater set up by someone who doesn't even know what they're doing.

But just like you said, you get to continue doing whatever you want. You're the dinosaur. I'll keep my whole house system of discrete inconspicuous wonderful sounding Bose equipment.

 

[SteveSRT8]

And just a reminder, as we all have stated above, sound is highly subjective.

I am definitely damaged after decades of ear abuse. So what I like may sound like garbage to the next guy. Fine by me, he can buy what he wants. In my house I decide.

But I hear definition of individual vocals and placement like I can never remember before. I can easily identify individual vocalists singing intricate harmonies. I've had more expensive stuff that didn't provide this level of entertainment.

 

[chiks]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

..
I have more than one Bose setup and they are amazing in person. I am wondering how any audiophile could not love them. Simple, no bulky equipment, and outstanding sound.


When I was a freshman, I visited my brother who had just bought a house, and made a Bose home theater in his basement.

So I sit down for a movie, and many times during the movie, the deep vocals would exhibit a shift towards where the so-called subwoofer was placed.

That said, I definitely like their approach, esp for outdoor speakers such as this 251. It works very well in creating an ambience.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: chiks
So I sit down for a movie, and many times during the movie, the deep vocals would exhibit a shift towards where the so-called subwoofer was placed.

That's the downside of using very small drivers in the main speakers. There is just no way to overcome the laws of physics. Since the tiny mains can't authoritatively reproduce frequencies down to 80 Hz level (THX recommended crossover setting), the sub has to step in. Unfortunately, having a sub reproduce vocals makes for a very poor video watching experience and/or music listening.

Quote:
That said, I definitely like their approach, esp for outdoor speakers such as this 251. It works very well in creating an ambience.

Looks like a decent speaker, but again, at the same price, you can sometimes find DefTech AW6500 on sale. The DefTechs use a larger 6.5" main driver plus a 10" oval passive radiator which will result in much better bass/mid-bass reproduction for a fuller sound.

Bose doesn't even bother to list the frequency response for the 251.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
. . . How many Bose systems have you heard in a HOME, especially with a professional installation?


TOO MANY, if you know what I mean.

A vintage-era tube receiver and a small set of really good medium bookshelves takes up no more space than a Bose system, and still sounds better to me - at all volumes. Look Ma, no subwoofer! It also looks as fab as it sounds when strolling into the room. And . . . it probably costs less than a Bose system.

A gorgeous late '50s Grundig table radio takes even less space, but is confined to mono. Still, the tone is to die for. Nothing compares to a vintage 6BQ5 output.

I'll grant you I'm a two channel guy. So I'll leave the HT setups to the other folks. Takes up too much listening space. A nice two channel system is pretty simple, compact, and gets it done for me.

I don't want to be weighed down by headgear when at home. We still have a pair of 40 yo Sennheisers somewhere, but we never use them.

Just so you don't think my knuckles drag the ground, we do most everyday listening from a home server feeding a network of Squeezeboxen. The digital front end of things is pretty cutting edge around here despite all the tube gear.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Pete, Because Bose knows that specs mean nothing. All that matters is how it sounds to the buyer.

I have 2 sets of 251's. Each are on a patio. One is much larger and places the speakers about 24 feet apart. These speakers have a 5 inch sub inside the enclosure for amazing bass response even in a huge outdoor area. Another neat thing is no 'sweet spot'. No matter where you stand you can hear BOTH speakers. When you factor in their size they are outrageously good.

The bottom line is my audiophile friends have all brought their favorite 'sound check' songs over (wife had a big BD party) and played them in all 7 zones. Every single one has been very impressed, and some were former Bose Haters Club members.

It may be professional installation that is the key. But whatever it is, I like it. And it is so nice to have virtually no equipment!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Pete, Because Bose knows that specs mean nothing.

I wouldn't say they mean nothing. At least they give some reference point, if quoted correctly (citing the associated -dB dropoff values). I will agree that the actual frequency response will depend on the acoustic environment the speakers are placed in.

Quote:

All that matters is how it sounds to the buyer.

Historically, Bose's recipe was to make the sound "pop" by accentuating certain frequencies while leaving gaping holes in others. Many uneducated buyers will fall for this "wow" factor, thinking this is what good sound is. Alas, if they are happy, that's all that really matters at the end of the day.

Quote:

The bottom line is my audiophile friends have all brought their favorite 'sound check' songs over (wife had a big BD party) and played them in all 7 zones. Every single one has been very impressed, and some were former Bose Haters Club members.

That's great to hear, but it would have been even better to have something else to compare them to. Who knows, maybe your friends would have been even more impressed.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Well I'm sure my old klipsch and macintosh setup would sound pretty good, too. Even side by side. But the massive difference in size and space taken is one of the best benefits.

I'm probably saving the earth by using much less power, too. I can remember when I had dedicated circuits to my 'audio den'!!!

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

. . . Historically, Bose's recipe was to make the sound "pop" by accentuating certain frequencies while leaving gaping holes in others. Many uneducated buyers will fall for this "wow" factor, thinking this is what good sound is. . . .


I think that's still the strategy. In the hobbyists' community it's what we used to call "boom and sizzle". Try those setups with certain vocals (particularly certain females), and it gets exposed for what it is in about 5 seconds.

Of course, it sounds even better the higher you raise the volume.

And you're right, it sounds impressive and dynamic to the unwitting (or forgetful) ear never exposed to better (or who hasn't heard better lately), just like a bottle of MGD tastes rich and flavorful to someone who never had an IPA or a top microbrew.

I don't play as hands-on in the hobby anymore. A lot have died or retired, and the old locations where we'd gather are all but gone. But when we did blind A/B system "shoot-out" events, everyone always knew when a Bose was playing.

I think if anyone did a real A/B at that party, they would quickly hear the microbrew from the MGD. Even MGD can be made to taste great if it's hot enough. But I'm sure everyone would quickly gather around the better brew.

Again, if someone likes their system and it presents the music the way they like it, that's ALL that matters, even if it's a '74 Soundesign box plucked from the curb. It's their ears.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I'm probably saving the earth by using much less power, too. I can remember when I had dedicated circuits to my 'audio den'!!!


Nah. All that Chinese plastic had to be shipped 1/2 way around the world in a big oil-guzzling freighter. Then trucked across the whole USA to your friendly retailer. And it will be broken and filling up a nearby landfill in just a few short years.

A good old Mac, or one of Saul's or Avery's or Hermon's rigs, or a pair of K-Horns, were designed and built with care and longevity either in nearby NY, MA, or down South. They were built to last. Metal, glass and wood. Wood . . . that renewable resource. A lot of them are still around. And they'll be around when you and I are both gone if anyone takes decent care of them. THAT'S conserving resources.

 

[97tbird]

Bose is to Audio equipment what Monster Cable is to cables

 

[MrHorspwer]

Name drop a few exclusive audio companies... but not too exclusive, then nobody would understand who you're talking about and how knowledgeable you are.

Throw in some buzzwords that sound interesting, like "native response curve" and "placement presentation". Don't forget to toss out some model numbers that require a google search, like 6BQ5.

Go on for five posts about how most people don't know what good audio is, how "we in the hobbiest community" do know good sound, then wrap it all up with a condescending, "Oh well, it's their ears".

What do you get? An internet audio snob!

I like the beer tasting comment though. It stacks you up right next to beer snobs, wine snobs, liquer snobs, food snobs, cheese snobs, and car snobs.

All this while never actually making any valid point on the OP's topic: Bose headphones.

Bravo. Be careful, you may get some bugs stuck in your nose if you keep it in the air too long.

 

[Volvohead]

Or . . . we can all just sit back and drink our lime-flavored Buds and listen to our Bose systems and convince ourselves and everyone else how great and better it is because the marketing, and our yuppie neighbors, says so. Keep on living the delusion. Better Sound Through Advertising. "Bose" is the ultimate audio name-drop to the average Joe.

Someone in this thread questioned "how any audiophile could not love" Bose. Admittedly off topic.

Yet you complain when someone challenges what amounts to snobbery of a different kind?

I'm not an audiophile. But I've been tooling around audio and electronics gear for well over four decades. And I'm very knowledgeable about it at this point. Get over it. Snobs don't sling solder on a Friday night recapping 50 year old amps.

You can have a lot of fun in audio for peanuts and not get fleeced by the Bose and Monster Cable trap. It's what I try to show the youngsters at every turn. When they see how affordable and great sounding older audio equipment is, they are grateful. And I feel I passed on a little something from our father's time to the next group.

I'll stand by my beer analogy. I drink cheap Yuengling beer most days. I just don't try to convince my neighbors its a microbrew.

 

[Volvohead]

Just a little more "snobbery" before I move on from this thread:

http://intellexual.net/bose.html

Look past the obvious and watch your wallets, folks.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Thanks for saving us! We deeply appreciate the help!

I don't know what I'd do without all those helpful people out there in Internet Land who can tell you where you went wrong. Condescension as compensation. I get it!

Luckily we all get to choose, and there are plenty of huge clunky systems to amuse the "audio snobs". Plenty of microbrews, too.

Great crack, Mr. HP!!

 

[chiks]

The way I look at it, iphone is the Bose in the phone world.
Everything is proprietary, the customers love it, and is expensive.

 

[Quattro Pete]

chiks, you're right. Apple, just like Bose, is a great marketing company.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Don't forget to toss out some model numbers that require a google search, like 6BQ5.


Well, real audio snob looks down their nose at anything other than directly heated triodes run single ended; sorry if you have to look that up. 6BQ5's are the VW Beetle of the audio world - I have dozens of 'em, maybe more, NOS, in my warehouse of junk.

I had some Bose 301's in college and thought they worked quite well, given that they were being driven by a mid-late 70's solid state amp, all of which were dreadful. They had a very flat frequency response, when correctly placed. They're still in my warehouse of junk, but need refoamed, and maybe reconed.

I have one of the acoustimass (?) systems at our lake house and it works well enough, for what it is. The shifting between the cubes and the "sub" is audible and unavoidable. If everything is close spaced, this artifact is mostly negligible, imo.

I now use Klipsch speakers, mostly because they continue to be very high sensitivity, a requirement for my homebuilt amps, but as best I recall, the "horny" sound of Klipsch speakers was (is?) about as polarizing to audiophiles as Bose ( I am definitely NOT an audiophile ).

The times that I have used them, I thought the noise cancelling Bose headphones worked pretty well.