That was a troll post. Is anybody awake? Lol.
Some of us use .....the horror, mono-grades.
Some of us use .....the horror, mono-grades.
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Bob is the "Synthetic" oil guy
- Thread starter wemay
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I always used Castrol or Mobil 1 synthetic and killed myself at the checkout line. Now I use A blend or PYB.
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Arguments that conventional are great is really a red herring argument. Your engine will survive OK, most of the time, on the cheapest SuperTech at Walmart in the wrong viscosity even. Thats not the point or the goal of discussions of max oil performance.
The real issue is how can we max out performance, in case its needed internally in an engine.
And how will you quantify this?
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Thats why 24 Hour races at LeMans and Nurburgring use synthetics exclusively.
Absolutely. But, there are more grocery getters in my neighborhood alone than there are LMPs and GT3 cars in those competitions in the entire world.
Joshua Skinner: I love how Nissan/Infiniti does it. They recommend the most expensive OEM oil out there, yet SuperTech conventional also meets the specification to the letter.
Arguments that conventional are great is really a red herring argument. Your engine will survive OK, most of the time, on the cheapest SuperTech at Walmart in the wrong viscosity even. Thats not the point or the goal of discussions of max oil performance.
The real issue is how can we max out performance, in case its needed internally in an engine.
And how will you quantify this?
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Thats why 24 Hour races at LeMans and Nurburgring use synthetics exclusively.
Absolutely. But, there are more grocery getters in my neighborhood alone than there are LMPs and GT3 cars in those competitions in the entire world.
Joshua Skinner: I love how Nissan/Infiniti does it. They recommend the most expensive OEM oil out there, yet SuperTech conventional also meets the specification to the letter.
Yeah I do agree with you on these points Captain
Now IF someone owns a super car then it would require the best of the best one could find.
Has far as Nissan and Infiniti go... World champions no doubt.. No need in that $12 a qt stuff. Loony tunes
Now IF someone owns a super car then it would require the best of the best one could find.
Has far as Nissan and Infiniti go... World champions no doubt.. No need in that $12 a qt stuff. Loony tunes
If it only were $12 a quart up here. I'm afraid to ask the dealers here what they'd ask. Nissan/Infiniti already wants about $70 for a conventional oil change, with Mobil Super 1000. Mobil Super 2000, Mobil 1, and Mobil 1 EP are all extra, and a lot extra. Nissan Genuine Ester Oil would probably cause a stack overflow on their cash registers.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
I've never seen Schaeffer's oil in any popular autoparts chain store. They were leading in blends at one point in time? 2002 I guess? Makes me wonder what the first walmart,autozone,napa,checker, etc. synth-blend was? I'd say it was Valvoline Durablend, maybe wrong.
...and now even that's hard to find.
Valvoline Durablend is the standard fill in my local garage. It's their default oil and the put it in everything, unless you directly ask for something else or request a logbook service. They use 10W-40, API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B4. I like the pretty blue bottles it comes in.
They do a lot of business, all makes and models, all ages. However they expect to see you every 10k KM (6.2k mi) or 12 months, and they send your car a nice letter if you are tardy.
Anyway...
I'm a full synthetic sort of guy, but reading BITOG, I now have a much higher appreciation for modern mineral oils. If anything it has made me go the other way.
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
I've never seen Schaeffer's oil in any popular autoparts chain store. They were leading in blends at one point in time? 2002 I guess? Makes me wonder what the first walmart,autozone,napa,checker, etc. synth-blend was? I'd say it was Valvoline Durablend, maybe wrong.
...and now even that's hard to find.
Valvoline Durablend is the standard fill in my local garage. It's their default oil and the put it in everything, unless you directly ask for something else or request a logbook service. They use 10W-40, API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B4. I like the pretty blue bottles it comes in.
They do a lot of business, all makes and models, all ages. However they expect to see you every 10k KM (6.2k mi) or 12 months, and they send your car a nice letter if you are tardy.
Anyway...
I'm a full synthetic sort of guy, but reading BITOG, I now have a much higher appreciation for modern mineral oils. If anything it has made me go the other way.
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The last time I used conventional oil was PYB 5W20 in my '02 Civic Si. My current rides sorta require synthetic from the factory.
wemay
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Arguments that conventional are great is really a red herring argument. Your engine will survive OK, most of the time, on the cheapest SuperTech at Walmart in the wrong viscosity even. Thats not the point or the goal of discussions of max oil performance.
The real issue is how can we max out performance, in case its needed internally in an engine.
And how will you quantify this?
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Thats why 24 Hour races at LeMans and Nurburgring use synthetics exclusively.
Absolutely. But, there are more grocery getters in my neighborhood alone than there are LMPs and GT3 cars in those competitions in the entire world.
Joshua Skinner: I love how Nissan/Infiniti does it. They recommend the most expensive OEM oil out there, yet SuperTech conventional also meets the specification to the letter.
Absolutely!
...and as an aside, don't most vehicles that don't strictly mandate an oil of special approvals and certifications only recommend an SM/GF-4? So when the DIY guy uses SN/GF-5, he's already 'upgrading'.
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Arguments that conventional are great is really a red herring argument. Your engine will survive OK, most of the time, on the cheapest SuperTech at Walmart in the wrong viscosity even. Thats not the point or the goal of discussions of max oil performance.
The real issue is how can we max out performance, in case its needed internally in an engine.
And how will you quantify this?
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Thats why 24 Hour races at LeMans and Nurburgring use synthetics exclusively.
Absolutely. But, there are more grocery getters in my neighborhood alone than there are LMPs and GT3 cars in those competitions in the entire world.
Joshua Skinner: I love how Nissan/Infiniti does it. They recommend the most expensive OEM oil out there, yet SuperTech conventional also meets the specification to the letter.
...and as an aside, don't most vehicles that don't strictly mandate an oil of special approvals and certifications only recommend an SM/GF-4? So when the DIY guy uses SN/GF-5, he's already 'upgrading'.
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Yep, lots don't, and if it's got a reasonable sump size and a modest OCI, there's no concern.
bbhero: I'm betting about $20 a liter. I'm afraid to ask.
bbhero: I'm betting about $20 a liter. I'm afraid to ask.
Bottom line for me-price.
As much as I have learned, I could go dino or blend and not bat an eye ( Cobalt is running Kendall blend right now)
Going down the oil section most 5qts of PYB,VWB,QSAD are between 15-18 bucks a jug. Pick your store, and the house synthetic is like a buck or two more. Another buck or so and you get QSUD, Mobil Super Syn or Magnatec oils. For those few extra bucks, you can run it longer and have a wee bit more protection. Heck, I dragged out QSUD for 27 months in my 3rd car.....
So, the guys who run dino are just as right as the synthetic users. It's just the syn users might save a little more if they use it right....
The fact my Cobalt is running a Kendall syn blend now is that I picked it up for a buck a quart at AZ. Then it gets replaced with some 3.79/quart Napa synthetic........
Now keep in mind the game changes a bit more when you throw DI'ed or Turbo'd engines in the mix, known to be tough on oil...
As much as I have learned, I could go dino or blend and not bat an eye ( Cobalt is running Kendall blend right now)
Going down the oil section most 5qts of PYB,VWB,QSAD are between 15-18 bucks a jug. Pick your store, and the house synthetic is like a buck or two more. Another buck or so and you get QSUD, Mobil Super Syn or Magnatec oils. For those few extra bucks, you can run it longer and have a wee bit more protection. Heck, I dragged out QSUD for 27 months in my 3rd car.....
So, the guys who run dino are just as right as the synthetic users. It's just the syn users might save a little more if they use it right....
The fact my Cobalt is running a Kendall syn blend now is that I picked it up for a buck a quart at AZ. Then it gets replaced with some 3.79/quart Napa synthetic........
Now keep in mind the game changes a bit more when you throw DI'ed or Turbo'd engines in the mix, known to be tough on oil...
Well, maybe the 24 hr race crowd might be on synthetics exclusively, but the 24 hr trucking crowd is still primarily on conventional oils. Yes, team operations do operate around the clock for days on end. While the RPM's might not be anywhere similar, those trucks are pulling 80,000 lb up mountain passes in summer and winter. Operating from Death Valley to Montreal. With OEM recommended oil change intervals between 25,000 and 50,000 miles on those DI and Turbo (mostly VG now but some still compounded). And doing it on a off the shelf conventional Delvac 1300, Delo 400, T3 Rotella, etc.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Sometimes i wonder how much of an oil website Bob's truly is. Sure, there are those on here who vehemently defended the capabilities of Conventional oil like Dnewton3, Dave1251 and a few others, but for the most part it seems conventional oils are seen in a very poor light by a large number of bitogers...
Some of the misconceptions:
-If you winter above the Carolina's, synthetic is needed for proper warm-up.
-If you summer south of the Carolina's, synthetic is needed due to the hot and humid summers.
-If using conventional, varnish and sludge are almost certainly going to happen with detrimental effects.
-Because synthetic is recommended in Europe, it must be better. Even if not recommended for your application in the new world.
-Synthetic undoubtedly protects better than conventional at any OCI. In other words, if you want your vehicle to reach 300K miles, its not even a question.
In celebrating the benefits of synthetics where they are needed (and there clearly are benefits), many members attempt to knock down the usefulness of conventional oils to the point where if you didn't know better, you'd think that only synthetics are getting all the R&D and improvements and "dino" has been frozen in time since 1975.
Cold flow is over-rated here. I stress and have stressed that a 5w20/30 conventional will get you just about anywhere in the US and Canada if needed. My personal favorite is when someone said they noticed a difference in starting by using a 0w30 in their snow blower in mild cold temps. I'll admit I like Castrol 0w30/40 and M1 0w40 though because of the A3/ B3 qualities.
Back when I first joined, I was under the impression synthetic did better in heat as well, but i was uneducated on the matter. Car parts stores as well as other car specific forums push the alternative. I love the diversity of BITOG. Not just a Ford, Jeep, Audi specific forum. We have NA engines, turbo'd engines, air cooled etc.
My go to is still conventional for the things that can use it. I'd be running it right now, but I had an emergency with a jug of leaking M1 TDT. (never stashing again!)
Sometimes i wonder how much of an oil website Bob's truly is. Sure, there are those on here who vehemently defended the capabilities of Conventional oil like Dnewton3, Dave1251 and a few others, but for the most part it seems conventional oils are seen in a very poor light by a large number of bitogers...
Some of the misconceptions:
-If you winter above the Carolina's, synthetic is needed for proper warm-up.
-If you summer south of the Carolina's, synthetic is needed due to the hot and humid summers.
-If using conventional, varnish and sludge are almost certainly going to happen with detrimental effects.
-Because synthetic is recommended in Europe, it must be better. Even if not recommended for your application in the new world.
-Synthetic undoubtedly protects better than conventional at any OCI. In other words, if you want your vehicle to reach 300K miles, its not even a question.
In celebrating the benefits of synthetics where they are needed (and there clearly are benefits), many members attempt to knock down the usefulness of conventional oils to the point where if you didn't know better, you'd think that only synthetics are getting all the R&D and improvements and "dino" has been frozen in time since 1975.
Cold flow is over-rated here. I stress and have stressed that a 5w20/30 conventional will get you just about anywhere in the US and Canada if needed. My personal favorite is when someone said they noticed a difference in starting by using a 0w30 in their snow blower in mild cold temps. I'll admit I like Castrol 0w30/40 and M1 0w40 though because of the A3/ B3 qualities.
Back when I first joined, I was under the impression synthetic did better in heat as well, but i was uneducated on the matter. Car parts stores as well as other car specific forums push the alternative. I love the diversity of BITOG. Not just a Ford, Jeep, Audi specific forum. We have NA engines, turbo'd engines, air cooled etc.
My go to is still conventional for the things that can use it. I'd be running it right now, but I had an emergency with a jug of leaking M1 TDT. (never stashing again!)
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Are people still using conventional oil? I didn't think anybody used that stuff anymore.
Some people like sludge and varnish inside their engines.
Are people still using conventional oil? I didn't think anybody used that stuff anymore.
Some people like sludge and varnish inside their engines.
I used whatever oil was on sale when I could afford it when I really poor.
Now I use synthetic changed every 10k, because evidently it makes people sad.
Now I use synthetic changed every 10k, because evidently it makes people sad.
I pretty much use whats on sale. Im constanly switching between conventional and syn in my car, i adjust my OCIs accordingly. I use syn in the escape due to the turbo, and also in my truck due to the abuse it sees
Originally Posted By: wemay
Sometimes i wonder how much of an oil website Bob's truly is. Sure, there are those on here who vehemently defended the capabilities of Conventional oil like Dnewton3, Dave1251 and a few others, but for the most part it seems conventional oils are seen in a very poor light by a large number of bitogers...
Some of the misconceptions:
-If you winter above the Carolina's, synthetic is needed for proper warm-up.
-If you summer south of the Carolina's, synthetic is needed due to the hot and humid summers.
-If using conventional, varnish and sludge are almost certainly going to happen with detrimental effects.
-Because synthetic is recommended in Europe, it must be better. Even if not recommended for your application in the new world.
-Synthetic undoubtedly protects better than conventional at any OCI. In other words, if you want your vehicle to reach 300K miles, its not even a question.
In celebrating the benefits of synthetics where they are needed (and there clearly are benefits), many members attempt to knock down the usefulness of conventional oils to the point where if you didn't know better, you'd think that only synthetics are getting all the R&D and improvements and "dino" has been frozen in time since 1975.
no, it is still very much bob is the oil guy. One of the most recommended oils on this website is PYB, a conventional and really outstanding motor oil. There are pros and cons to conventional and synthetic. I don't think it is so much that one is necessarily better, it's just that they are designed to benefit different applications. If I was in Siberia, I would prefer a 0wXX synthetic. But conventional is still a good option for most vehicles anywhere in the U.S. Depending of course on how often you change it.
Sometimes i wonder how much of an oil website Bob's truly is. Sure, there are those on here who vehemently defended the capabilities of Conventional oil like Dnewton3, Dave1251 and a few others, but for the most part it seems conventional oils are seen in a very poor light by a large number of bitogers...
Some of the misconceptions:
-If you winter above the Carolina's, synthetic is needed for proper warm-up.
-If you summer south of the Carolina's, synthetic is needed due to the hot and humid summers.
-If using conventional, varnish and sludge are almost certainly going to happen with detrimental effects.
-Because synthetic is recommended in Europe, it must be better. Even if not recommended for your application in the new world.
-Synthetic undoubtedly protects better than conventional at any OCI. In other words, if you want your vehicle to reach 300K miles, its not even a question.
In celebrating the benefits of synthetics where they are needed (and there clearly are benefits), many members attempt to knock down the usefulness of conventional oils to the point where if you didn't know better, you'd think that only synthetics are getting all the R&D and improvements and "dino" has been frozen in time since 1975.
no, it is still very much bob is the oil guy. One of the most recommended oils on this website is PYB, a conventional and really outstanding motor oil. There are pros and cons to conventional and synthetic. I don't think it is so much that one is necessarily better, it's just that they are designed to benefit different applications. If I was in Siberia, I would prefer a 0wXX synthetic. But conventional is still a good option for most vehicles anywhere in the U.S. Depending of course on how often you change it.
Well I use traditionally used conventional oil in the warmer months and synthetic in the colder months.
I stopped doing that though when conventional oil's price climbed to what they are now. The price gap for those of us that are not able to get discounted/rebated oil between synthetic and dino is not that great. This is especialy true in the USA where most OTC/OTS synthetics are not 100% PAO or Ester but mostly GIII blended with some ture synthetic.
So now I bounce between so called synthetics $17-$19.95 per gallon or 5quart jug 5W40's for warmer months normally and $23-$25 per 5 quart jug of M10W40 for colder months.
This year I will end up running 5W40 Delo all the way through winter because my timing this year was off for my OCI. I am not going to lose any sleep over it thought.
If I could get a good name brand oil for under $2 a quart localy I would go back to conventional in the warm months and synthetic for cold months.
While I am not impressed with current additive packages I think that overall the base stocks used in conventional oils today are the best they have ever been over all.
I think that when you had products like Chevron Supreme with it's G-II+ was stock and decent additive package for $1.49 or less people where excited about dino's. Today though their is nothing exciting about a $3.79 a quart dino and it is not a good value or a bargain at all!
In fact I can recall when Amsoil and Redline where under $5 a quart and when M1 and Castrol Syntec where under $3 a quart. This was back when they where all 100% PAO, Ester or PAO/Ester blend minus conventional carrier oil used for the additive package.
At the current price point for OTS/OTC "synthetic" in the USA we can safely say they are not true "European Synthetic" but rather blends.
I think the best material generated on BITOG is the older material. The automotive powertrain designs where evolving, base stocks where evolving and additive packages where changing rabidly.The devil is in the detail and the history that lead to where we are today is still relevant. You can only go back so far though. That is the bad thing about internet produced data sharing or forums. Servers always fail or sites get bought and sold and some point a lot of older data is lost due to costs or failure.
I stopped doing that though when conventional oil's price climbed to what they are now. The price gap for those of us that are not able to get discounted/rebated oil between synthetic and dino is not that great. This is especialy true in the USA where most OTC/OTS synthetics are not 100% PAO or Ester but mostly GIII blended with some ture synthetic.
So now I bounce between so called synthetics $17-$19.95 per gallon or 5quart jug 5W40's for warmer months normally and $23-$25 per 5 quart jug of M10W40 for colder months.
This year I will end up running 5W40 Delo all the way through winter because my timing this year was off for my OCI. I am not going to lose any sleep over it thought.
If I could get a good name brand oil for under $2 a quart localy I would go back to conventional in the warm months and synthetic for cold months.
While I am not impressed with current additive packages I think that overall the base stocks used in conventional oils today are the best they have ever been over all.
I think that when you had products like Chevron Supreme with it's G-II+ was stock and decent additive package for $1.49 or less people where excited about dino's. Today though their is nothing exciting about a $3.79 a quart dino and it is not a good value or a bargain at all!
In fact I can recall when Amsoil and Redline where under $5 a quart and when M1 and Castrol Syntec where under $3 a quart. This was back when they where all 100% PAO, Ester or PAO/Ester blend minus conventional carrier oil used for the additive package.
At the current price point for OTS/OTC "synthetic" in the USA we can safely say they are not true "European Synthetic" but rather blends.
I think the best material generated on BITOG is the older material. The automotive powertrain designs where evolving, base stocks where evolving and additive packages where changing rabidly.The devil is in the detail and the history that lead to where we are today is still relevant. You can only go back so far though. That is the bad thing about internet produced data sharing or forums. Servers always fail or sites get bought and sold and some point a lot of older data is lost due to costs or failure.
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