BMW M5 and Z3

[drfeelgood]

I'm considering a 1998-2003 M5 for myself and a Z3 for the wife. Never have owned a BMW but we like these models and used ones are a fraction of what they were new. Any advice or experience from BITOG crowd? Thanks

 

[OVERKILL]

ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And keep in mind, maintenance is, or can be, rather pricey. But they are a blast to drive, and very well built machines. And you want a 03/30/00 or newer M5. Personally, I'd suggest an '01+ facelift car.

 

[JHZR2]

You need a good independent BMW mechanic. They arent really any more expensive to do most normal stuff (some of the more intricate parts might be pricey). You do need to take care of the car regularly.

 

[HyundaiGuy]

I've owned two 3 Series BMWs. One is still probably the favorite car I have ever owned. I regret selling it. That said, they are reliable. Not as reliable as a Japanese car or even my current Hyundai. They have soul, which the Hyundai sorely lacks. A BMW is not an appliance like the Hyundai. It is a driving machine. That said, ask around and find an independent BMW mechanic- your "guy" for those jobs that will come up that either you don't want to do yourself or don't have the ability to do yourself. If you have a BMW, a guy is required. The biggest repair bill I ever had on my first 3 was $800. My sister bought a 3 after speaking to me, but ignored my "guy" advice. She faced a $4000 repair at the BMW dealership. I'm not kidding. She found a guy after that and was thrilled. She stuck with her guy through a Saab and her current Acura. Find your guy before shopping, and have him inspect any car you are considering before purchase.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

You need a good independent BMW mechanic. They arent really any more expensive to do most normal stuff (some of the more intricate parts might be pricey). You do need to take care of the car regularly.

The M5 has something like 6 ECM's, two MAF's, eight throttle bodies, 4x CPS's.....etc. Then there are the VANOS solenoids.... The parts themselves aren't stupidly expensive, it is the number of parts that is the issue. Sunday I'm changing one of my CPS's, as it has caught a serious case of the dead. Buying through bavauto saved me $100 on it versus the dealer. Doing the work with another M5 enthusiast saves the cost of getting it done by a mechanic, as you do them from below. This fellow (M5 owner) spent $2500 on his car the first week he had it to get it running right. They are known for MAF issues.... He put on new MAF's, all four CPS's (they were bad), and had to re-solder his VANOS boards. All common issues with these cars. They are (relatively) expensive to own, all things considering.

 

[HyundaiGuy]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

You need a good independent BMW mechanic. They arent really any more expensive to do most normal stuff (some of the more intricate parts might be pricey). You do need to take care of the car regularly.

They are known for MAF issues....

Yup, had that on the first one, but not the second one. Bavarian Autosport are good folks and they know their stuff. As an aside, never buy a 7 Series, no matter how good of a deal you think you are getting. I used to be in the car business and bought a nice 60K mile 7 for half of retail for my ex wife and the repairs (even with a guy) killed me.

 

[mva]

If you are up to doing some work yourself, I would recommend a Z3. There is lots of detailed DIY information available online. These cars are fun but they do have a lot of minor issues. Check out the "true story" in the link below: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=878582 http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1735548 Avoid any car with rear differential mount cracking or popped spot welds on the trunk floor. Check out the Z3 section on Bimmerforums for a huge amount of detail and information. I have a 2000 Z3M that I have enjoyed owning for the past 3 years. My favorites are the 2000 Z3M or a 2001/2002 3.0 litre model.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Three big BMW's ages ago broke me of them for a while. I've never broken a SEAT on any other make of car! Especially a BIG BUCKS high end car. Parts were ridiculously expensive, and I did the work. Cost of ownership was rather high. Radiators, AC system, etc. They had a LOT of issues back then. As an example, a set of fans was (insert ridiculous amount here) for the BMW over ten years ago, I just bought a set for my friends LX (same as mine) for 100 bucks this month!!! Then I read about frames buckling and welds popping, etc. Not for me. You may not believe it, but there are cars that deliver a great driving experience for a lot less money.

 

[hattaresguy]

Great cars, like all German cars they are built with the expectation of being maintained. Follow the service recommendations religiously. Service records are everything, pass on examples without them. Also if you can't fix them yourself find a good independent mechanic who can. Older cars at dealers are not a good idea.

 

[Mr Nice]

If you can afford a BMW, you can also afford to have it repaired properly. No need to complain that its sooooo expensive to have it repaired.

 

[97tbird]

I really think that getting the top of the line non-M BMW in each series is the best balance between performance and afford-ability when it comes to BMWs. The M versions are very sophisticated compared to the non M ones, and therefore can be horribly costly and complex to fix... I have a top of the line E46 non-M (the ZHP) and it's a great fun but daily-drivable car, I think.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette

If you can afford a BMW, you can also afford to have it repaired properly. No need to complain that its sooooo expensive to have it repaired.

Some people like to cry, I guess they really don't belong driving high end cars. Any high end car I have ever owned I always figured $2k-$3k a year to keep it if its outside of warranty. Never get surprised to much that way. If you want cheap buy a Toyota.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Some people like to blab, too. I guess they really should be quiet if they have nothing to contribute to the thread. 2-3k? Yeah sure. I spent nearly that on a SEAT! Ya'll are sure big talkers but when it really comes down to your own wallet you would have complained too. Since I don't spend 3 grand a year maintaining one of ANYTHING else, why would I spend that on a BMWhat? I own a 180 mph sedan that can run rings around most of that overpriced german engineering and it sure doesn't cost that much to own. Not even close! It's really easy to throw stones, at least I actually OWNED the cars. I'm not just taking potshots at people sharing a real experience on the forum.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette

If you can afford a BMW, you can also afford to have it repaired properly. No need to complain that its sooooo expensive to have it repaired.

If you can afford a leer jet does that mean it is necessarily wise to buy one? A Motorsport car is not your regular BMW and the POTENTIAL (keep that in mind) costs associated with that Motorsport badge can be much higher than with a regular trim model. I'm an enthusiast who did a fair chunk of research BEFORE buying my car so I wouldn't be "OMG, WHY IS THIS STUFF SO EXPENSIVE???" after I bought it. It sounds like the OP is trying to do the same thing: get a handle on what he's getting into before taking the leap. I do most of my automotive repair work myself or with fellow enthusiasts (like this weekend) and so the cost of keeping MY car in good condition is going to be a lot less than somebody who is getting it done at the dealer. I'm familiar with my tools and own a good number of them. I've been working on engines since I was a boy. Been working on cars in some way shape or form since the mid 90's. For somebody like me, other than the sheer number of parts these cars have, owning them is't going to be any more "expensive" (relatively speaking) than any other high performance car that is 10 years old. However, for somebody not mechanically inclined, coming from a non-BMW background and jumping behind the wheel of their highest-trim Motorsport model, they may not be prepared for the potential maintenance costs associated with such a vehicle. And I don't think anybody is saying that it is GOING to be expensive, simply that it COULD be expensive! And the OP has to bear that in mind when considering purchasing one of these cars. I posted a list of problems I know of or am familiar with so the OP has an idea as to what can go wrong. My experience hasn't been bad so far. Steve's has been far worse. I don't think there is anything wrong about posting your experience, and if Steve's was as bad as he says it was, then that is a heck of a lot more than simply "paying to play". I've been "paying to play" with Mustangs too, and this car isn't consuming any more of my budget than they were. The same can't be said for Steve, and he's indicated that.

 

[drfeelgood]

I appreciate everyones input, both (potentially) positive and negative. I, like Overkill, also tend to do most of my own maintenance, being fortunate enough to have a lift and plenty of tools at my disposal. Most of my experience has been with American and Japanese vehicles, though. Are most of the above mentioned "issues" something that a DIYer with a manual and helpful advice take care of themselves? Even so, it seems if I'm serious about getting these cars, finding out who the best independent BMW guys locally are is mandatory.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: drfeelgood

Are most of the above mentioned "issues" something that a DIYer with a manual and helpful advice take care of themselves?

Yes. There is a handful of decent BMW forums where you can receive advice on DIY. As far as tools, a bmw-specific code reader can be helpful. That is why it's good to know an indy shop which could scan these for you, if you don't plan on buying one.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: drfeelgood

I appreciate everyones input, both (potentially) positive and negative. I, like Overkill, also tend to do most of my own maintenance, being fortunate enough to have a lift and plenty of tools at my disposal. Most of my experience has been with American and Japanese vehicles, though. Are most of the above mentioned "issues" something that a DIYer with a manual and helpful advice take care of themselves? Even so, it seems if I'm serious about getting these cars, finding out who the best independent BMW guys locally are is mandatory.

Took me about 10 minutes to do my CPS this afternoon. No hoist involved, was a lot quicker and easier than I expected.