BMW LL 17FE+ Oil

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Without getting into the merits of whether BMW has it right in specifying the 0 W 20 grade, I am still wondering if my perceptions are correct. On the "newish" BMW 2.0 Twinpower cars, you can use LL 01, LL 04 or the LL 17. The LL 17 is what you get when you go to the dealer, at least in my experience. If you want LL 17 sourced from Amazon, you have only three choices: Triax Euro Ultra, Liqui Moly 6600 or Valvoline Euro. Maybe, sometimes, you can find BMW oil also.

From what I can tell on BITOG, many folks are using the older LL 01/04 specced oils, where there are many, many more choices. Still others seem to get through the warranty period, and be quite content that other oils that do not have the BMW specs are fine, or even better. A few others will pay the delivery charge to someone else, and pay very high prices for, say Ravenol or Motul oils.

I wonder if the German makers have propagated too many standards, the oil companies can't keep up. Or are we in an age of such sophistication that you need a very specific oil for a very specific engine?
 
Without getting into the merits of whether BMW has it right in specifying the 0 W 20 grade, I am still wondering if my perceptions are correct. On the "newish" BMW 2.0 Twinpower cars, you can use LL 01, LL 04 or the LL 17. The LL 17 is what you get when you go to the dealer, at least in my experience. If you want LL 17 sourced from Amazon, you have only three choices: Triax Euro Ultra, Liqui Moly 6600 or Valvoline Euro. Maybe, sometimes, you can find BMW oil also.
Which ones have an actual BMW approval?
 
Which ones have an actual BMW approval?
They all state the specification on the label, but on some thread I saw that Triax was questionable. I plan on going with Liqui Moly, and am pretty sure it's solid, along with Valvoline.
 
Without getting into the merits of whether BMW has it right in specifying the 0 W 20 grade, I am still wondering if my perceptions are correct. On the "newish" BMW 2.0 Twinpower cars, you can use LL 01, LL 04 or the LL 17. The LL 17 is what you get when you go to the dealer, at least in my experience. If you want LL 17 sourced from Amazon, you have only three choices: Triax Euro Ultra, Liqui Moly 6600 or Valvoline Euro. Maybe, sometimes, you can find BMW oil also.

From what I can tell on BITOG, many folks are using the older LL 01/04 specced oils, where there are many, many more choices. Still others seem to get through the warranty period, and be quite content that other oils that do not have the BMW specs are fine, or even better. A few others will pay the delivery charge to someone else, and pay very high prices for, say Ravenol or Motul oils.

I wonder if the German makers have propagated too many standards, the oil companies can't keep up. Or are we in an age of such sophistication that you need a very specific oil for a very specific engine?
The B-series engines (Production date beginning around 2015) were always developed to use 20w oils but older specifications were also acceptable in markets such as Europe. In addition, for this engine family BMW chose to use polymer coated bearings (IROX) to significantly reduce start/stop wear. Start/stop reduces fuel consumption.

Since 2015 a lot has changed. First is the move to ULSG in 2020/21. CAFE requirements ((see link HERE)) continues to be important and automakers don't want to get in trouble with regulators so they're not going to recommend oils which differ from those which were used to certify the vehicle with regards to Fuel Consumption. Thirdly (BMW Specific) is that there's a chance that BMW is now shipping cars to the US with OPF (Confirmation required)

As older vehicles which rely on older specs are retired form service so will the oils which support them.
 
It's not just questionable. "State the specification on the label" is a lot different than "has the approval".
This was an eye-opener. Only Liqui-Moly has the approval. Valvoline says their oil is "recommended" and Triax says "meets specifications and approvals." These carefully parsed words are a little shocking, but so is BMW's propagation of a standard that so few can, or choose to, meet.
 
This was an eye-opener. Only Liqui-Moly has the approval. Valvoline says their oil is "recommended" and Triax says "meets specifications and approvals." These carefully parsed words are a little shocking, but so is BMW's propagation of a standard that so few can, or choose to, meet.
It's somewhat new and BMW is selling their own oil so probably less incentive to formulate it.
 
This was an eye-opener. Only Liqui-Moly has the approval. Valvoline says their oil is "recommended" and Triax says "meets specifications and approvals." These carefully parsed words are a little shocking, but so is BMW's propagation of a standard that so few can, or choose to, meet.
 
Without getting into the merits of whether BMW has it right in specifying the 0 W 20 grade, I am still wondering if my perceptions are correct. On the "newish" BMW 2.0 Twinpower cars, you can use LL 01, LL 04 or the LL 17. The LL 17 is what you get when you go to the dealer, at least in my experience. If you want LL 17 sourced from Amazon, you have only three choices: Triax Euro Ultra, Liqui Moly 6600 or Valvoline Euro. Maybe, sometimes, you can find BMW oil also.

From what I can tell on BITOG, many folks are using the older LL 01/04 specced oils, where there are many, many more choices. Still others seem to get through the warranty period, and be quite content that other oils that do not have the BMW specs are fine, or even better. A few others will pay the delivery charge to someone else, and pay very high prices for, say Ravenol or Motul oils.

I wonder if the German makers have propagated too many standards, the oil companies can't keep up. Or are we in an age of such sophistication that you need a very specific oil for a very specific engine?
The standards are a reflection of the markets in which they do business.. . Each market has unique emissions/FE goals, operating environments (fuel quality, Autobahn speeds, climate) and differ in terms of availability of cost effective lubricants which are available to the customer.

The US market is focused on fuel economy and the specialty lubricants are cheap for the consumer to acquire.

Europe over the last 2-3 yrs has just began moving towards recommending 20w and lighter oils for some of the German makes.
 
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The standards are a reflection of the markets in which they do business.. . Each market has unique emissions/FE goals, operating environments (fuel quality, Autobahn speeds, climate) and differ in terms of availability of cost effective lubricants which are available to the customer.

The US market is focused on fuel economy and the specialty lubricants are cheap for the consumer to acquire.

Europe over the last 2-3 yrs has just began moving towards recommending 20w and lighter oils for some of the German makes.
BMW Dealers in the UK, and BMW Assist, use 0w30 BMW branded oil.

I assume LL04
 
I'll jump in here as this thread is a few months old. I just bought a 2024 X5 last week with the B58 and the sticker under hood calls for 0W12 which is the LL 22FE++ and the manual says to go by the sticker. Too thin for me. The 2024 owners manual say only the 0W12 or 0W30 is approved and only the LL12FE in the 30 weight. No mention of 0W20 like the 2023 manual has. Wanting to change the oil at 5K the 0W12 oil is no where to be had, part # 83-21-5-A65-BA3. I posted up some questions over on Reddit in the BMW section and a tech published this about the oil:
This information is from TIS:

  • For the B58TU2 with the petrol particulate filter, LL-12FE, LL-17FE+, or LL-22FE++ are approved.
  • For the B58TU2 without the particulate filter, LL-17FE+ and LL-22FE++ are approved, as is LL-01FE. Note that LL-12FE isn't approved for the B58TU2 without the particulate filter.
LL-22FE++ is the recommended oil for the B58TU2 with and without the particulate filter. However, TwinPower 0W-12 doesn't appear to be available through normal channels yet.

BMW Oils:
LL-01FE: TwinPower 0W-30 LL-01FE (p/n 83215A2AF99)
LL-12FE: TwinPower 0W-30 LL-12FE (p/n 83215A2AFC3)
LL-17FE+: TwinPower 0W-20 LL-17FE+ (p/n 83215A2AFC5)
LL-22FE++: TwinPower 0W-12 LL-22FE++ (appears to be not yet available)

On the same thread a BMW tech said another tech in his shop was changing oil on a car that called for the 0W12 oil but they didn't have any and put in the 0W20. The oil level indicator wouldn't work and said over fill. They changed it back to 0W12 and it worked. I wouldn't be surprised if BMW built that level indicator in this new LCI to be calibrated for the 0W12. I sure hope not.

Is there a way to tell if you have the GPF?
 
I'll jump in here as this thread is a few months old. I just bought a 2024 X5 last week with the B58 and the sticker under hood calls for 0W12 which is the LL 22FE++ and the manual says to go by the sticker. Too thin for me. The 2024 owners manual say only the 0W12 or 0W30 is approved and only the LL12FE in the 30 weight. No mention of 0W20 like the 2023 manual has. Wanting to change the oil at 5K the 0W12 oil is no where to be had, part # 83-21-5-A65-BA3. I posted up some questions over on Reddit in the BMW section and a tech published this about the oil:
This information is from TIS:

  • For the B58TU2 with the petrol particulate filter, LL-12FE, LL-17FE+, or LL-22FE++ are approved.
  • For the B58TU2 without the particulate filter, LL-17FE+ and LL-22FE++ are approved, as is LL-01FE. Note that LL-12FE isn't approved for the B58TU2 without the particulate filter.
LL-22FE++ is the recommended oil for the B58TU2 with and without the particulate filter. However, TwinPower 0W-12 doesn't appear to be available through normal channels yet.

BMW Oils:
LL-01FE: TwinPower 0W-30 LL-01FE (p/n 83215A2AF99)
LL-12FE: TwinPower 0W-30 LL-12FE (p/n 83215A2AFC3)
LL-17FE+: TwinPower 0W-20 LL-17FE+ (p/n 83215A2AFC5)
LL-22FE++: TwinPower 0W-12 LL-22FE++ (appears to be not yet available)

On the same thread a BMW tech said another tech in his shop was changing oil on a car that called for the 0W12 oil but they didn't have any and put in the 0W20. The oil level indicator wouldn't work and said over fill. They changed it back to 0W12 and it worked. I wouldn't be surprised if BMW built that level indicator in this new LCI to be calibrated for the 0W12. I sure hope not.

Is there a way to tell if you have the GPF?
Interesting tidbit about the oil level sensor and 0w12 vs 0w20. I'm not sure how they could calibrate the sensor to read viscosity.

Just a FYI..LL12FE is a low saps version of LL01FE. US cars are not supposed to have OPF (Otto Particulate Filter) but it would be located mid exhaust.
 
I'll jump in here as this thread is a few months old. I just bought a 2024 X5 last week with the B58 and the sticker under hood calls for 0W12 which is the LL 22FE++ and the manual says to go by the sticker. Too thin for me. The 2024 owners manual say only the 0W12 or 0W30 is approved and only the LL12FE in the 30 weight. No mention of 0W20 like the 2023 manual has. Wanting to change the oil at 5K the 0W12 oil is no where to be had, part # 83-21-5-A65-BA3. I posted up some questions over on Reddit in the BMW section and a tech published this about the oil:
This information is from TIS:

  • For the B58TU2 with the petrol particulate filter, LL-12FE, LL-17FE+, or LL-22FE++ are approved.
  • For the B58TU2 without the particulate filter, LL-17FE+ and LL-22FE++ are approved, as is LL-01FE. Note that LL-12FE isn't approved for the B58TU2 without the particulate filter.
LL-22FE++ is the recommended oil for the B58TU2 with and without the particulate filter. However, TwinPower 0W-12 doesn't appear to be available through normal channels yet.

BMW Oils:
LL-01FE: TwinPower 0W-30 LL-01FE (p/n 83215A2AF99)
LL-12FE: TwinPower 0W-30 LL-12FE (p/n 83215A2AFC3)
LL-17FE+: TwinPower 0W-20 LL-17FE+ (p/n 83215A2AFC5)
LL-22FE++: TwinPower 0W-12 LL-22FE++ (appears to be not yet available)

On the same thread a BMW tech said another tech in his shop was changing oil on a car that called for the 0W12 oil but they didn't have any and put in the 0W20. The oil level indicator wouldn't work and said over fill. They changed it back to 0W12 and it worked. I wouldn't be surprised if BMW built that level indicator in this new LCI to be calibrated for the 0W12. I sure hope not.

Is there a way to tell if you have the GPF?
My 2020 745Le has the GPF fitted and the handbook lists LL04, LL12 and LL17

As far as I am aware all EU BMW petrols have had a GPF for several years, Mercedes started putting them on the S Class in 2017/18 with the facelift models in the UK probably because of German regulations as German market vehicles are often early adopters of upcoming emissions standards, for example most Merc diesels and some BMW diesels met Euro 6 long before the September 2015 deadline, in the case of the W222 S Class and E Class with the 3.0 v6 diesel it was late 2013/early 2014

My handbook also lists anything from 0w20 to 5w40 as acceptable, do you know what the differences are between the 2020 B58 and your 2024 B58?

The only oil I have found that meets 0w20 is LL17, BMW Dealers don’t use that for servicing they use LL04

Is it even technically possible to calibrate an oil level sensor to tell the difference between 0w12 and 0w20?

If that was the case why is the older B58 from 2020 specced for a huge range of oil?

Is it possible the BMW Tech actually just over filled the engine?

But didn’t want to admit it?
 
My 2020 745Le has the GPF fitted and the handbook lists LL04, LL12 and LL17

As far as I am aware all EU BMW petrols have had a GPF for several years, Mercedes started putting them on the S Class in 2017/18 with the facelift models in the UK probably because of German regulations as German market vehicles are often early adopters of upcoming emissions standards, for example most Merc diesels and some BMW diesels met Euro 6 long before the September 2015 deadline, in the case of the W222 S Class and E Class with the 3.0 v6 diesel it was late 2013/early 2014

My handbook also lists anything from 0w20 to 5w40 as acceptable, do you know what the differences are between the 2020 B58 and your 2024 B58?

The only oil I have found that meets 0w20 is LL17, BMW Dealers don’t use that for servicing they use LL04

Is it even technically possible to calibrate an oil level sensor to tell the difference between 0w12 and 0w20?

If that was the case why is the older B58 from 2020 specced for a huge range of oil?

Is it possible the BMW Tech actually just over filled the engine?

But didn’t want to admit it?
There are fairly large differences between B58, B58 TU, and B58 TU2. However, I agree that it's almost impossible the oil level sensor cares about viscosity. It doesn't even seem possible.
 
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