BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2
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Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
While that may be true, you don't need UOAs to provide comments on lifter clatter, rod knock, and red gunk. My dad changed BMW 5W30 in his modestly driven 2002 540 twice as often as the indicator lights told him to and it sounded like a diesel at 80,000km. The switch to GC alone vastly reduced his issues and a course of ARX has put everything back where it was supposed to be. We did UOAs to see if something was wrong with his engine, air filter, injectors etc... and all it showed was high-ish lead after he had been running Techron which I understand isn't abnormal.
I'm glad the OP likes it, and it works for a lot of people, but I won't be using it. Not because of a sludgy internet picture either.
If there's one big "take away" lesson to be learned from BITOG it's that different engines (and different driving styles and conditions) prefer different oils. So it's not entirely surprising that the experience would vary between the V8 M62TU and the I6 M52TU engines. Also, I believe the M62's have a bit of history of lifter noise and a few TSB's on the subject so it may be inherently more sensitive to oil properties than some of BMW's other engines.
Insofar as the difference between the GC and BMW oils go, there's a tread on that very subject here - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1103391#Post1103391
While that may be true, you don't need UOAs to provide comments on lifter clatter, rod knock, and red gunk. My dad changed BMW 5W30 in his modestly driven 2002 540 twice as often as the indicator lights told him to and it sounded like a diesel at 80,000km. The switch to GC alone vastly reduced his issues and a course of ARX has put everything back where it was supposed to be. We did UOAs to see if something was wrong with his engine, air filter, injectors etc... and all it showed was high-ish lead after he had been running Techron which I understand isn't abnormal.
I'm glad the OP likes it, and it works for a lot of people, but I won't be using it. Not because of a sludgy internet picture either.
If there's one big "take away" lesson to be learned from BITOG it's that different engines (and different driving styles and conditions) prefer different oils. So it's not entirely surprising that the experience would vary between the V8 M62TU and the I6 M52TU engines. Also, I believe the M62's have a bit of history of lifter noise and a few TSB's on the subject so it may be inherently more sensitive to oil properties than some of BMW's other engines.
Insofar as the difference between the GC and BMW oils go, there's a tread on that very subject here - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1103391#Post1103391
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f355spider
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Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
I have been looking at a 550i, but with the fuel economy that the 3.0TT can deliver, while matching the performance of the 550, it seems a no brainer. Meanwhile, the fuel economy on the 535i is darn-near what the 530i was getting.
Minor point: with equal transmissions, the 535i will match the 550i's performance up to moderate highway speeds, but the 550i will pull away after that. Eventually, power always wins.
You're right about the fuel economy, though.
I totally agree. However, these days, with a wife and daughter, I don't find it useful as much any more to have that extra pull above 80 MPH. Now if you chipped the 3.0TT, you are going to get that extra 100 whp and now I think you've exceeded the 550i.
Not to mention the gas.
My view is that the only things the 550i has going for it is that it is the top of the line, it has the v8 torque and more (stock) HP. The best thing of all for me is that it has the intoxicating v8 rumble, which in my books is the key reason still to consider it!
I'll actually wander out of my garage when I see my neighbor pulling out of his so that I can listen to him pull up the hill in his 4.8L v8 powered BMW X5. It just sounds awesome. Nothing compares.
Not only that Jim...have you seen the new 2009 550 Sport? M-tech front and rear bumpers, paddle shift 6 speed Step-tronic transmission (and apprently it shifts decently fast using the paddle shift (for a slush box)). It also comes with newly designed 19" staggered wheels, just a simply stunning overall package!
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
I have been looking at a 550i, but with the fuel economy that the 3.0TT can deliver, while matching the performance of the 550, it seems a no brainer. Meanwhile, the fuel economy on the 535i is darn-near what the 530i was getting.
Minor point: with equal transmissions, the 535i will match the 550i's performance up to moderate highway speeds, but the 550i will pull away after that. Eventually, power always wins.
You're right about the fuel economy, though.
I totally agree. However, these days, with a wife and daughter, I don't find it useful as much any more to have that extra pull above 80 MPH. Now if you chipped the 3.0TT, you are going to get that extra 100 whp and now I think you've exceeded the 550i.
Not to mention the gas.
My view is that the only things the 550i has going for it is that it is the top of the line, it has the v8 torque and more (stock) HP. The best thing of all for me is that it has the intoxicating v8 rumble, which in my books is the key reason still to consider it!
I'll actually wander out of my garage when I see my neighbor pulling out of his so that I can listen to him pull up the hill in his 4.8L v8 powered BMW X5. It just sounds awesome. Nothing compares.
Not only that Jim...have you seen the new 2009 550 Sport? M-tech front and rear bumpers, paddle shift 6 speed Step-tronic transmission (and apprently it shifts decently fast using the paddle shift (for a slush box)). It also comes with newly designed 19" staggered wheels, just a simply stunning overall package!
Originally Posted By: f355spider
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
I have been looking at a 550i, but with the fuel economy that the 3.0TT can deliver, while matching the performance of the 550, it seems a no brainer. Meanwhile, the fuel economy on the 535i is darn-near what the 530i was getting.
Minor point: with equal transmissions, the 535i will match the 550i's performance up to moderate highway speeds, but the 550i will pull away after that. Eventually, power always wins.
You're right about the fuel economy, though.
I totally agree. However, these days, with a wife and daughter, I don't find it useful as much any more to have that extra pull above 80 MPH. Now if you chipped the 3.0TT, you are going to get that extra 100 whp and now I think you've exceeded the 550i.
Not to mention the gas.
My view is that the only things the 550i has going for it is that it is the top of the line, it has the v8 torque and more (stock) HP. The best thing of all for me is that it has the intoxicating v8 rumble, which in my books is the key reason still to consider it!
I'll actually wander out of my garage when I see my neighbor pulling out of his so that I can listen to him pull up the hill in his 4.8L v8 powered BMW X5. It just sounds awesome. Nothing compares.
Not only that Jim...have you seen the new 2009 550 Sport? M-tech front and rear bumpers, paddle shift 6 speed Step-tronic transmission (and apprently it shifts decently fast using the paddle shift (for a slush box)). It also comes with newly designed 19" staggered wheels, just a simply stunning overall package!
I have seen it. We have had that set-up in Canada for a few years now. The wheels and M5 front bumper really make it. Of course in Canada the list price is at least 35% more, even when adjusted for f/x differences.
I thought of buying that one, but then considered the 535i given what gas prices are like these days. Also, the 535i is 1/10th behind the 550i in 0-60, and $1300 buys a Vishnu turbo chip that gives the 535i another 100hp.
The 5 series is being re-designed for the 2010 MY and it's rumored to be de-Bangled and going back to BMW's more elegant/conservative design style. There has been much speculation as to the appearance, but nobody has seemed to find an un-cladded/un-camoflaged spy shot. 10 engine options are going to be available (maybe not all in NA) including diesels and up to a 4.4L v8 twin turbo in the non-M5. I've kind of decided to save up for the redesigned 2010. We'll see how it looks when they finally reveal the design!
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
I have been looking at a 550i, but with the fuel economy that the 3.0TT can deliver, while matching the performance of the 550, it seems a no brainer. Meanwhile, the fuel economy on the 535i is darn-near what the 530i was getting.
Minor point: with equal transmissions, the 535i will match the 550i's performance up to moderate highway speeds, but the 550i will pull away after that. Eventually, power always wins.
You're right about the fuel economy, though.
I totally agree. However, these days, with a wife and daughter, I don't find it useful as much any more to have that extra pull above 80 MPH. Now if you chipped the 3.0TT, you are going to get that extra 100 whp and now I think you've exceeded the 550i.
Not to mention the gas.
My view is that the only things the 550i has going for it is that it is the top of the line, it has the v8 torque and more (stock) HP. The best thing of all for me is that it has the intoxicating v8 rumble, which in my books is the key reason still to consider it!
I'll actually wander out of my garage when I see my neighbor pulling out of his so that I can listen to him pull up the hill in his 4.8L v8 powered BMW X5. It just sounds awesome. Nothing compares.
Not only that Jim...have you seen the new 2009 550 Sport? M-tech front and rear bumpers, paddle shift 6 speed Step-tronic transmission (and apprently it shifts decently fast using the paddle shift (for a slush box)). It also comes with newly designed 19" staggered wheels, just a simply stunning overall package!
I have seen it. We have had that set-up in Canada for a few years now. The wheels and M5 front bumper really make it. Of course in Canada the list price is at least 35% more, even when adjusted for f/x differences.
I thought of buying that one, but then considered the 535i given what gas prices are like these days. Also, the 535i is 1/10th behind the 550i in 0-60, and $1300 buys a Vishnu turbo chip that gives the 535i another 100hp.
The 5 series is being re-designed for the 2010 MY and it's rumored to be de-Bangled and going back to BMW's more elegant/conservative design style. There has been much speculation as to the appearance, but nobody has seemed to find an un-cladded/un-camoflaged spy shot. 10 engine options are going to be available (maybe not all in NA) including diesels and up to a 4.4L v8 twin turbo in the non-M5. I've kind of decided to save up for the redesigned 2010. We'll see how it looks when they finally reveal the design!
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
I'll actually wander out of my garage when I see my neighbor pulling out of his so that I can listen to him pull up the hill in his 4.8L v8 powered BMW X5. It just sounds awesome. Nothing compares.
How does this X5 sound to you?
I'll actually wander out of my garage when I see my neighbor pulling out of his so that I can listen to him pull up the hill in his 4.8L v8 powered BMW X5. It just sounds awesome. Nothing compares.
How does this X5 sound to you?
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jpr-- you can also pick up TOTAL and Elf (along with LubroMoly/LiquiMoly) from Northside Imports in Kearny Mesa, used to be Inter Auto Parts. The stuff is CHEAP, like Wal-Mart cheap, and you can get all of your OEM BMW parts there as well.
It was the best place to find when I had the Porsche, a buddy's BMW, another Mercedes or two, and the turbo Saab...all OEM parts, same roof, and an oil nerd's paradise for the exotic stuff.
note-- I have no affiliation with them other than being a former customer before I moved out of town.
It was the best place to find when I had the Porsche, a buddy's BMW, another Mercedes or two, and the turbo Saab...all OEM parts, same roof, and an oil nerd's paradise for the exotic stuff.
note-- I have no affiliation with them other than being a former customer before I moved out of town.
Thanks for the tip - I was completely unaware of that.
Originally Posted By: JAG
It's interesting how some areas are pristine and others are crudded up.
Only the underside of the valve covers have a bit of crud. Seems to be common in so many engines.
It's interesting how some areas are pristine and others are crudded up.
Only the underside of the valve covers have a bit of crud. Seems to be common in so many engines.
I think this would be much more impressive if this engine had been operated in climate not as easy on an engine as San Diego.
I do think most any good oil that maintains the TBN in the acceptable range would provide similar results.
I would love to see what a Michigan engine given the same conditions would look like. I would guess it would look much worse given the much larger and harsher climate in the winter.
It looks like the 323 would easily run 250K miles given how good the pics look....
I do think most any good oil that maintains the TBN in the acceptable range would provide similar results.
I would love to see what a Michigan engine given the same conditions would look like. I would guess it would look much worse given the much larger and harsher climate in the winter.
It looks like the 323 would easily run 250K miles given how good the pics look....
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
That's usually due to condensation, right?
Yes, I believe so. Condensation of some mixture of oil vapor (light ends) plus blowby.
That's usually due to condensation, right?
Yes, I believe so. Condensation of some mixture of oil vapor (light ends) plus blowby.
Originally Posted By: fun2drive
I think this would be much more impressive if this engine had been operated in climate not as easy on an engine as San Diego.
I do think most any good oil that maintains the TBN in the acceptable range would provide similar results.
I would love to see what a Michigan engine given the same conditions would look like. I would guess it would look much worse given the much larger and harsher climate in the winter.
It looks like the 323 would easily run 250K miles given how good the pics look....
A good point and I have no doubt that climate and general operating conditions have a huge effect upon the performance and useful service life of any oil. All other factors being equal, I'd expect vastly difference results between a car that lives in Siberia and one that lives in Singapore.
Which in the end is really just a big cautionary note about drawing broad conclusions from limited data without regard to context or boundary conditions.
I think this would be much more impressive if this engine had been operated in climate not as easy on an engine as San Diego.
I do think most any good oil that maintains the TBN in the acceptable range would provide similar results.
I would love to see what a Michigan engine given the same conditions would look like. I would guess it would look much worse given the much larger and harsher climate in the winter.
It looks like the 323 would easily run 250K miles given how good the pics look....
A good point and I have no doubt that climate and general operating conditions have a huge effect upon the performance and useful service life of any oil. All other factors being equal, I'd expect vastly difference results between a car that lives in Siberia and one that lives in Singapore.
Which in the end is really just a big cautionary note about drawing broad conclusions from limited data without regard to context or boundary conditions.
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