BMW factory oil recomendations, is this document still current?

[kschachn]

You must have not read or understood my second paragraph. So let me repeat it:

BMW knows a lot about their oils, about real world fuel qualities and about their control software - more than either you or I. That's why I recommend sticking with BMW's statement: "only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE are permitted in Europe ... They must not be used outside this area."

Although this looks to me like clunky English translation of a German statement (and I am fluent in German), the intended meaning should be clear and obvious to all: LL04 must not be used outside of Europe.

Q.E.D.

Some people use their brain.

 

[edyvw]

You must have not read or understood my second paragraph. So let me repeat it:

BMW knows a lot about their oils, about real world fuel qualities and about their control software - more than either you or I. That's why I recommend sticking with BMW's statement: "only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE are permitted in Europe ... They must not be used outside this area."

Although this looks to me like clunky English translation of a German statement (and I am fluent in German), the intended meaning should be clear and obvious to all: LL04 must not be used outside of Europe.

Q.E.D.

1. BMW doesn’t make oils.
2. Fuel quality is not determined by BMW. It is determined by appropriate government agency and it is public knowledge. There is nothing secretive there.
3. BMW once starts selling a product (as any other manufacturer) it opens to public. Within a year, there are no secrets. We know (if we want) how engines operate, what are their strengths or weaknesses.
4. BMW used and is still using LL04 oils in the US, but in diesel engines. Reason is that diesel in the US was already ULSD in 2009 and LL04 had to be used bcs. DPF.
5. There is nothing secretive why BMW is using LL04 in EU in gasoline engines and not here. We all now that here except you. For you it might be a news, for us it is nit, so go do your due diligence and research why.
6. You might say: stick to manual. But based on your posts so far, stay away from “I am recommending.”

 

[jryanl]

You must have not read or understood my second paragraph. So let me repeat it:

BMW knows a lot about their oils, about real world fuel qualities and about their control software - more than either you or I. That's why I recommend sticking with BMW's statement: "only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE are permitted in Europe ... They must not be used outside this area."

Although this looks to me like clunky English translation of a German statement (and I am fluent in German), the intended meaning should be clear and obvious to all: LL04 must not be used outside of Europe.

Q.E.D.

BMW is contradicting itself then. 2023 m340 manual indicates ll-12fe is approved for ise in the US.

 

[edyvw]

BMW is contradicting itself then. 2023 m340 manual indicates ll-12fe is approved for ise in the US.

BMW recommends/requires oils as they go. BMW in general is inconsistent with recommendations and they never issue back compatibility of any oil. VW for example did that with VW504.00/507.00. BMW recommends LL01 for example for NXX engines starting in 2004, and since then they updated LL01 at least 3 times as well as LL04. LL17FE is basically light version of LL04. Yet, it is not back up option.
I think two things here are at play:
1. They want to keep it simple for owner.
2. Availability of LL01 oils is much higher than LL04. In case oil needs to be topped off, they would rather have owner finding LL01 immediately, than giving up on LL04 and then using any oil.

 

[Marcozi]

Gasoline sold in the US is ULSG, so LL04 oil is fine. I'm running Ravenol VMP 5w30 LL04 in my car at this time.

 

[JHZR2]

Gasoline sold in the US is ULSG, so LL04 oil is fine. I'm running Ravenol VMP 5w30 LL04 in my car at this time.

The phenomena associated with higher sulfur in gas, versus an oil not designed for it is real. I had a number of UOAs on here of the euro M1 5w-30 that met some new VW spec (forget which), and TBN retention was poor due to gasoline sulfur content.

These days I wouldn’t be as concerned.

 

[edyvw]

The phenomena associated with higher sulfur in gas, versus an oil not designed for it is real. I had a number of UOAs on here of the euro M1 5w-30 that met some new VW spec (forget which), and TBN retention was poor due to gasoline sulfur content.

These days I wouldn’t be as concerned.

I had that in 2015. After 4k M1 ESP 5W30 was shot.
Recent UOA of ESP shows plenty of life left after 5k.

 

[bigjl]

Is this document still current? Specifically the recommendation not to use LL-04 outside of Europe?
See #1 on attachment...dated 07/2020
Enclosure 3 to SI 11 07 96 (138), edition 07/2020

I have seen several threads where it was commonly discussed that the sulfur issue in North American gasoline was no longer an issue, that we met, or exceeded the low sulfur standard of Europe.

Final Rule for Control of Air Pollution from Motor Vehicles: Tier 3 Motor Vehicle Emission and Fuel Standards | US EPA

Includes CFR citations, rule history, rule summary and links to the Federal Register notice, Regulatory Impact Analysis, Summary and Analysis of Comments, fact sheets and technical support documents.

www.epa.gov

The handbook for my 2020 745Le (2021 model year) is very vague on oil specs, when compared to my previous XJL and S Class.

It lists BMW LL04, LL12FE and LL17FE.

Or alternatives C2 or C3 (up to 2 pints for top up only)

With Viscosities listed as 0w20, 5w20, 0w30, 5w30, 0w40 or 5w40

Which means a huge number of oils can be used.

I am going to stick with the usual BMW Service Interval (18k miles) and do an interim Oil and Filter change at 9k miles, probably with 0w40.

Only going to keep it a year, with expected mileage in this year being 60/70k miles.

Likely getting replaced with an i7 or S580e

 

[edyvw]

The handbook for my 2020 745Le (2021 model year) is very vague on oil specs, when compared to my previous XJL and S Class.

It lists BMW LL04, LL12FE and LL17FE.

Or alternatives C2 or C3 (up to 2 pints for top up only)

With Viscosities listed as 0w20, 5w20, 0w30, 5w30, 0w40 or 5w40

Which means a huge number of oils can be used.

I am going to stick with the usual BMW Service Interval (18k miles) and do an interim Oil and Filter change at 9k miles, probably with 0w40.

Only going to keep it a year, with expected mileage in this year being 60/70k miles.

Likely getting replaced with an i7 or S580e

Unless Castrol got approval for their Low-SAPS 0W40, currently, there is no 0W40 that has BMW LL04 approval.

 

[weasley]

Unless Castrol got approval for their Low-SAPS 0W40, currently, there is no 0W40 that has BMW LL04 approval.

Not widespread, but out there.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

The handbook for my 2020 745Le (2021 model year) is very vague on oil specs, when compared to my previous XJL and S Class.

It lists BMW LL04, LL12FE and LL17FE.

Or alternatives C2 or C3 (up to 2 pints for top up only)

With Viscosities listed as 0w20, 5w20, 0w30, 5w30, 0w40 or 5w40

Which means a huge number of oils can be used.

I am going to stick with the usual BMW Service Interval (18k miles) and do an interim Oil and Filter change at 9k miles, probably with 0w40.

Only going to keep it a year, with expected mileage in this year being 60/70k miles.

Likely getting replaced with an i7 or S580e

Not widespread, but out there.

View attachment 138050

Thanks. This has been an on/off topic of US BMW owners for some time ever since the US moved to ULSG a couple of years ago. BMW has been mum with regards to whether LL04 is now suitable for N-series engines in the US market. Many of us, myself included, have guessed as to why that is so since BMW made the decisions to use sub 3.5 HTHS oils for these engines in 2015-16 and is now using low-saps 20w in all their current B-series engines.

 

[edyvw]

Not widespread, but out there.

View attachment 138050

Yeah. I think LL is back in these HTHS 3.5 and above.

 

[kschachn]

Thanks. This has been an on/off topic of US BMW owners for some time ever since the US moved to ULSG a couple of years ago. BMW has been mum with regards to whether LL04 is now suitable for N-series engines in the US market. Many of us, myself included, have guessed as to why that is so since BMW made the decisions to use sub 3.5 HTHS oils for these engines in 2015-16 and is now using low-saps 20w in all their current B-series engines.

It helps if people use their brain to understand.

 

[bigjl]

Haven’t done the research yet but if that’s the case then 5w40 Motul LL04 Specific will likely be the choice.

Plenty of suitable 5w30 but not sure I want to put 0w20 or 5w20 in it.