BMW factory oil recomendations, is this document still current?

[f355spider]

Is this document still current? Specifically the recommendation not to use LL-04 outside of Europe?
See #1 on attachment...dated 07/2020
Enclosure 3 to SI 11 07 96 (138), edition 07/2020

I have seen several threads where it was commonly discussed that the sulfur issue in North American gasoline was no longer an issue, that we met, or exceeded the low sulfur standard of Europe.
https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emi...e-control-air-pollution-motor-vehicles-tier-3

 

[kschachn]

Technically no it is not current. You are correct about the sulfur level.

 

[f355spider]

Has anyone seen a newer document from 2021 or 2022? Just curious why the continued exclusion of North America in the document

 

[kschachn]

Also most Walmarts have Pennzoil Euro L on the shelf for just over $26 for five quarts. That is about as good as it gets for an oil with LL-04 approval. I've given up on finding a reasonably priced 504 00 and use this in my Tiguan instead.

 

[edyvw]

It could be referring to other markets: Russia, Middle East, Africa etc.

 

[CleanSump]

It specifically states LL-04 and LL-12FE are permitted in "Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway, and Lichtenstein). They must not be used outside this area."
That leaves no room for "interpretation" by BITOG members. It means as it says; LL-04 and LL-12FE are NOT to be used if you live somewhere else, i.e. Americas, Africa, Asia, Australia, oddball islands.

I'm not too concerned about it in the US. I'm using Mobil 1 European in in our BMWs.

 

[edyvw]

It specifically states LL-04 and LL-12FE are permitted in "Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway, and Lichtenstein). They must not be used outside this area."
That leaves no room for "interpretation" by BITOG members. It means as it says; LL-04 and LL-12FE are NOT to be used if you live somewhere else, i.e. Americas, Africa, Asia, Australia, oddball islands.

I'm not too concerned about it in the US. I'm using Mobil 1 European in in our BMWs.

BMW once they move to another oil on certain market, don’t revisit older engines.
in reality current BMW’s could use LL04 as it is heavier version of LL17FE.

 

[CleanSump]

BMW doesn't provide a list of approved oils anymore either. Maybe just cutbacks on overhead to eliminate the the manhours to do the study and compilation. I'm not a conspiracy kind of guy.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Is this document still current? Specifically the recommendation not to use LL-04 outside of Europe?
See #1 on attachment...dated 07/2020
Enclosure 3 to SI 11 07 96 (138), edition 07/2020

I have seen several threads where it was commonly discussed that the sulfur issue in North American gasoline was no longer an issue, that we met, or exceeded the low sulfur standard of Europe.
https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emi...e-control-air-pollution-motor-vehicles-tier-3

The transition to ULSG began in 2020. Iirc there was a grace period for smaller refineries which ended in late 2020 or early 2021. I'd have to go back to EPA website and check.
I haven't seen a updated document with the change to LL04 and I don't know if we will being that BMW moved their fleet to LL01FE 7 or so yrs ago.

 

[jryanl]

It specifically states LL-04 and LL-12FE are permitted in "Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway, and Lichtenstein). They must not be used outside this area."
That leaves no room for "interpretation" by BITOG members. It means as it says; LL-04 and LL-12FE are NOT to be used if you live somewhere else, i.e. Americas, Africa, Asia, Australia, oddball islands.

I'm not too concerned about it in the US. I'm using Mobil 1 European in in our BMWs.

My owner’s manual for 2023 m340 has ll-12fe as one of the two that’s approved. (US)

 

[CleanSump]

My owner’s manual for 2023 m340 has ll-12fe as one of the two that’s approved. (US)

Good info.
BMW hasn't put out a new statement for all specs in the US though.
So everyone is trying to figure out if the lower SAPS oils are OK in place of LL-01 now.

 

[kschachn]

It specifically states LL-04 and LL-12FE are permitted in "Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway, and Lichtenstein). They must not be used outside this area."
That leaves no room for "interpretation" by BITOG members. It means as it says; LL-04 and LL-12FE are NOT to be used if you live somewhere else, i.e. Americas, Africa, Asia, Australia, oddball islands.

How dumb should people be?

 

[kschachn]

Good info.
BMW hasn't put out a new statement for all specs in the US though.
So everyone is trying to figure out if the lower SAPS oils are OK in place of LL-01 now.

They are.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Good info.
BMW hasn't put out a new statement for all specs in the US though.
So everyone is trying to figure out if the lower SAPS oils are OK in place of LL-01 now.

You do know that dealer fill for B-series engines has been LowSaps for a couple of years now. The question is whether BMW will back-spec N-series engines for LL04 and the FE version.

 

[CleanSump]

They are.

We know. However, BMW has not printed it.

You do know that dealer fill for B-series engines has been LowSaps for a couple of years now. The question is whether BMW will back-spec N-series engines for LL04 and the FE version.

That's what I said.

 

[kschachn]

We know. However, BMW has not printed it.

There is a lot of stuff BMW doesn’t do that they should. This is coming from a former BMW owner.

 

[edyvw]

You do know that dealer fill for B-series engines has been LowSaps for a couple of years now. The question is whether BMW will back-spec N-series engines for LL04 and the FE version.

They won’t.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

They won’t.

Ys. I sgree.

 

[Alien]

It specifically states LL-04 and LL-12FE are permitted in "Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway, and Lichtenstein). They must not be used outside this area."
That leaves no room for "interpretation" by BITOG members. It means as it says; LL-04 and LL-12FE are NOT to be used if you live somewhere else, i.e. Americas, Africa, Asia, Australia, oddball islands.

I'm not too concerned about it in the US. I'm using Mobil 1 European in in our BMWs.

Is it possible that BMW is programming cars sold in different parts of the world differently to match local regulations, conditions, and/or experience? If so, it would explain these differeing geographic requirements for oil types, even if the cars affected are mechanically identical.

 

[kschachn]

Is it possible that BMW is programming cars sold in different parts of the world differently to match local regulations, conditions, and/or experience? If so, it would explain these differeing geographic requirements for oil types, even if the cars affected are mechanically identical.

No.

Another variation on the "electronic oil pump is programmed for a certain oil" nonsense.