Blown Amsoil engine; they stepped up!

[H25B]

Over at a 4Runner forum that I use a lot there's a member who going for a long OCI with Amsoil and the EA57 (IIRC) filter. (It's a 4th gen V6 4Runner, 1GRFE engine.) There's been bulletins released, Amsoil no longer recommends that filter for many Toyotas etc.


The bottom line is he started the long OCI just prior to the bulletin and had no idea that there might be an issue. The engine blew due to oil starvation; filter related starvation.

It took a long time, 4 months I think, but Amsoil stepped up with the $4k+ check! Good for them. I have never been that "into" their engine oils as I'm not a super-long OCI guy. I do love their tans/axle fluids though and I'll continue to use them. It's great to see company put their money where their mouth is

If you're interested in pics and more details... It was this post that got me going on that whole standpipe filter thing I posted about a while ago.

 

[addyguy]

Wow. Just wow!

Kudos to Amsoil....that's a big bar to step up to...admiting that after only 9k miles your 'premium filter' toasted an engine and eating a $4k engine replacement.

 

[blue94]

Why don't the bypass valves on these filters work? Even if the media is getting clogged, the bypass valve is supposed to allow oil to bypass. Hence the name. Obviously, that's not happening. What's up?

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: blue94
Why don't the bypass valves on these filters work? Even if the media is getting clogged, the bypass valve is supposed to allow oil to bypass. Hence the name. Obviously, that's not happening. What's up?


Good question!
Either way, I'm not sold on long OCI's

 

[H25B]

Originally Posted By: blue94
...Even if the media is getting clogged, the bypass valve is supposed to allow oil to bypass. Obviously, that's not happening.

Yep, that's why I like big filters with low bypass settings. If the EA57 needs a full 20psi to open the bypass and the oil pressure is only 40psi then... I am speculating on the bypass pressure and I wouldn't be surprised to learn these engines run at 40psi-50psi during normal cruise. (It's odd to me that the OE 90915-20004 filter is a 20psi bypass.)

I have also noticed some bypass openings look too small. In my mind there's no way full and adequate flow could get through a hole that's smaller than the ID of the threaded filter mount. Maybe the EA57 was one of those and the filter engineers view the bypass as something that only needs to bare part of the flow (cold starts etc).

Originally Posted By: expat
Good question!
Either way, I'm not sold on long OCI's

I'm with expat. Intellectually I know the high mile, long OCI's can work but 7500mi is about my personal limit. 7500 is even pushing it for me. I like to range between 4500-6k depending time, towing, season etc. On a diesel pickup that isn't working for a living I can go a bit longer.

 

[sciphi]

Glad to hear there are still some honest companies out there! Nice to see Amsoil do the right thing for that guy.

 

[eljefino]

 

[Sayjac]

Not sure what filters with standpipes has to do with this situation? Don't see the correlation.

The Amsoil filter just not engineered for correctly for this application, for a long OCI. It's nice they stepped up, and I'm sure they aren't going to cut a check for ~$4.5k without some time and investigation, especially given Yota's recently stellar ownership experiences.

I especially enjoyed reading 'dcon's comment, "its a fact, OEM parts are thoroughly tested and therefore superior to aftermarket". Not! He is close about one thing though, if the the filter was closer to a sieve, much like Yota OEM's are with the open ends design, and as r_r's tests showed, this likely wouldn't have happened. What that says about their filtration efficiency is another matter.

 

[Trav]

Nice to see Amsoil stepped up to the plate,it says a lot about the company.

 

[H25B]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Not sure what filters with standpipes has to do with this situation? Don't see the correlation. The correlation for me was in seeking a larger filter with greater capacity. The standpipe came in because on this engine the filter sits nearly vertically (open end down). With the 'old standards' like the PL30001 (and others) it can take a comparatively long time for the oil light to go out after a long sit. The filters tend to drain out.

The Amsoil filter just not engineered for correctly for this application, for a long OCI. I agree. Regarding dcon's statement and your "not" reply: Toyota is pretty good about not going "too cheap" but a few pennies saved over 'x' units = big dollars for the company! I agree with you on that one.

 

[Sayjac]

Main point about dcon's statement is I don't agree that OEM's are generally superior to aftermarket. Actually have found it to be the reverse. And, I can get aftermarket for less. So I guess I found his comment, to put it nicely, inane.

As for the standpipes, not to rehash, but previously Busa used the larger P1 w/ silicone adbv on his(IIRC) 4.0L Tacoma with no start up issues reported. He even posted a pic of it after installation.

That said, if the standpipe filter works for you, kool.

 

[QuOk]

Wow 4 months waiting and he gets a used engine with unknown maintenance history?
He probably should have called a lawyer.
Especially since he bought from them directly and they never notified him about the filter problem.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: QuOk
Wow 4 months waiting and he gets a used engine with unknown maintenance history?
He probably should have called a lawyer.
Especially since he bought from them directly and they never notified him about the filter problem.


I might not have sued them, but I would have at least spoken to my attorney about this. But I do think it's great that Amsoil did come through.

 

[AuthorEditor]

Isn't it ironic that like a lot of us here on BITOG he was trying to use products that would provide superior protection for his engine, and instead he ended up blowing it up? I bet if he'd have used the OEM filters and any old oil that met spec. his engine would have been fine and we wouldn't be discussing this. I think this is a good warning to all of us to be careful not to do more harm than good when we meddle with the manufacturer's recommendations.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Main point about dcon's statement is I don't agree that OEM's are generally superior to aftermarket. Actually have found it to be the reverse. And, I can get aftermarket for less. So I guess I found his comment, to put it nicely, inane.

As for the standpipes, not to rehash, but previously Busa used the larger P1 w/ silicone adbv on his(IIRC) 4.0L Tacoma with no start up issues reported. He even posted a pic of it after installation.

That said, if the standpipe filter works for you, kool.

I don't use OEM filters. They are fine, but if I want to spend more, I can do much better. And if I want to spend less, I have alternatives to choose from that are just as good (or better) for less.

I use OEM parts for sensitive, or critical components, but otherwise aftermarket all the way if the product is better, or just as good but cheaper.

-Spyder

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: QuOk
Wow 4 months waiting and he gets a used engine with unknown maintenance history?
He probably should have called a lawyer.
Especially since he bought from them directly and they never notified him about the filter problem.


I agree!

A used engine from a wreck 4 months later, sorry I wouldn't be happy either.

I mentioned months back in one of these threads that Amsoil should have notified customers via email who purchased these filters that there was a problem rather than relying on the TSB from the website. This guy purchased online so they had his email address. Granted the email suggestion isn't fool proof, but it would have worked in this case.

I'm glad it worked out for him in the end. Hopefully this engine is a good one. Had he followed his owners manual I don't think he would have had the issue. But we'll never know. At least he got some cash!

 

[Sayjac]

Ideally a new(er) engine would have been in order. The owner, not being aware, put in a used one though. Then, after becoming aware he asked Amsoil to cover the cost of the repairs, which they eventually did and the customer seems satisfied.

Ideally he would have gotten the TSB too. But, he didn't and went from there to pursue recourse. I suppose he could have hired a lawyer and gone for more, but I'm not sure how much more he would have gained.

Again not ideal, but all things considered, including customers final reaction, reasonable. I'm no Amsoil apologist, haven't used their products, primarily because of cost, and not readily available enough for me. Just sayin, at the end of the day, the owner seems satisfied. Hard to argue with that result, hopefully it works out well for him in the future.

 

[demarpaint]

Yes he's happy in the end and that is all that really matters. Me I wouldn't have been happy. But hey that's just me.

 

[Sayjac]

And I could also understand someone not being happy with that outcome. Not sure I would have been, I doubt it. But, if I had already dropped in a used engine, might have to make the most of it, as the owner seemed to do.

 

[Pablo]

Amsoil honors their warranty. The guy replaced the engine with an engine of his choice. Amsoil paid for it. Not a lot of gripe room there.

But in reality - looking at those pictures - methinks some sludge was already on site. Amsoil probably could have even proved it, but to what end?

I still don't understand why the by-pass was insufficient unless the engine had sludge, of the filter is just too darn small. I'm sticking with the sludge theory.