Blown 2.7L Ecoboost Engines -TSB, What Root Cause?

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About the Indian connection, can't Ford quality control people at least sample test those heads to measure surface hardening?
I wonder what kind of technical test it would be. Anybody?
Edit: I couldn't remember much from a metallurgical class years ago in engineering school, and metals have never been my specialty per se, so I googled "testing for surface hardness carbonitriding" and it does look like Ford can pick, say, every 100th head, do a destructive hardness test, etc..... Sound right.
 
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So, as the owner of one of these 2.7 powered F150's (not made in the TSB window though), a couple of thoughts.

1. The existence of a TSB on this issue does not mean that every 2.7 built will have this issue. Certainly, there are enough having the issue that the TSB became necessary. But that does not mean (and never has) that every unit in the window will have the issue. That right there is a huge reason why it is a TSB, and not a recall. I've owned a ton of vehicles with TSB's that applied to them, but were never needed.

2. The thread pointed to was about 12 pages long. As far as huge failure issues go, this is not long, particularly given the volume of these things being churned out. Not knowing the total number, but I believe it is well north of 500,000 F150's a year are sold. Based on that, 12 pages in a forum for that truck is not a huge number - and a few posters are in there a lot. Figure 30% of the F150's come with the 2.7, and you are talking 150,000+ of these per year. Again, put the percentages in perspective. (I know -easy for me to say since my truck is not affected. It would stink to have one, but again - look at the percentages).

3. A poster questioned why Ford would even bother with the 2.7. Yes, it weighs similar to the other engine options.

It gets substantially better fuel mileage than the 3.5 ecoboost and 5.0 trucks. The EPA numbers are higher, but in real life the spread is bigger than the EPA numbers. Don't believe me? Go look at Fuelly and see for yourself. 2.7 F150 owners are reporting north of 18 MPG on average (Full disclosure, I'm at 19 MPG on average in one of the heaviest configurations of 2.7 powered trucks). 5.0 and 3.5 ecoboost owners are back in the 16 MPG range. 2 MPG does't sound like a lot, but over 10% better fuel mileage is nothing to sneeze at.

Some of us don't need the heavier towing capability of the bigger engines (the heaviest I tow is a 4000+lb boat and trailer). For what I tow, it works extremely well, and tows so much better than my old 3V 5.4 V8, its amazing.

On top of that, in the unloaded trucks - drive the 2.7 Ecoboost and the 3.5 Ecoboost back to back without anyone telling you which is which. I couldn't feel the difference (granted, with the 6 speed transmission only in the 2016's). The 2.7 is very responsive and has little turbo lag. I'm sure fully loaded, the 3.5 would feel better, but unloaded, the 2.7 more than holds its own.

Last, look at cost. The 2.7 was a $700 upgrade to my truck. The V8 was over $1000 more, and the 3.5 was nearly 2k more... For my needs, the 2.7 works very well. It may not for yours, but the beauty is we all can get something that works the way we want it to.

4. Not going to get into the get the v8, its better, or Ford should put in a pushrod V8 argument. Facts are there is a certain segment that believes trucks should have nothing but old school V8 power in them. And they see DI and Turbos as always being glass empty. Little will change their mind. The good news is Ford makes that option with the 5.0. The even better news is they have other options too...

I'm not dismissing this as being an issue. It is. But the mere fact there is a TSB does not mean every single one of these engines is a ticking time bomb.
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
So, as the owner of one of these 2.7 powered F150's (not made in the TSB window though), a couple of thoughts.I'm not dismissing this as being an issue. It is. But the mere fact there is a TSB does not mean every single one of these engines is a ticking time bomb.


Absolutely agreed. This forum and others always amplifies the issue far beyond its normal scope...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
So, as the owner of one of these 2.7 powered F150's (not made in the TSB window though), a couple of thoughts.I'm not dismissing this as being an issue. It is. But the mere fact there is a TSB does not mean every single one of these engines is a ticking time bomb.


Absolutely agreed. This forum and others always amplifies the issue far beyond its normal scope...


+1 It does suck though for those with the problem.
 
Would this also effect the 3.0l version of this engine? Pretty sure that's what's in the new Continental my uncle just took delivery of...
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
would be nice if they went back to normal, serviceable valve guides made of a more common alloy.
like the stuff that worked for the last 100 years.

We will never be allowed to go back to what worked well for decades. It's not progressive, as the whole world is geared toward today. I absolutely agree with you though. Sometimes I feel as I am just too old. I just don't buy into the massive push forward coming from everywhere on everything in this day and time.
 
This situation would apply to any model of vehicle that Ford puts the EB 2.7 into. With that said, Ford is taking the situation in hand and replacing the engines that exhibit this problem.

That doesn't take away the bad feeling that a brand new car or truck needing a new engine will give the owners. Diehard Ford people will stay with them. Others may decide to switch to another brand.
 
Every manufacturer has had problems. Subaru makes extreme oil burners, Hyundai has a bad batch of engines that drop bearings. GM had timing chain stretch issues and LIM gasket issues. Chrysler... I'd have to make a list...

You get the idea. Engineers are still human and with the pressure to keep costs low sometimes the only way to get it done is to make the accountants take a recall up the bum so the engineers can build it the right way.
 
I have a F-150 with the 2.7 ecoboost and it is right in the middle of the TSB for head/long-block replacement. Manufacture date of 9/2016. I'm just over 20k miles and getting close to one year of service. (bought Oct/2016)

I would be interested in seeing what the driving habits of the affected engines were to see if that has any correlation to the failures. What I mean by that is are these engines being short tripped, is the autostart/stop affecting the issue in any way, was it simply a QC issue for certain parts or is it design related? Lots of questions really. If it is related to the autostart/stop function I fear we will never hear about that. I'm curious about how many engines have been replaced and or how many heads were replaced. I know we will never get that info but I would like to see the percentages.

Just so I'm not blowing wind, I will say I have yet to experience any problems with my 2.7 engine. When I got it home the first day I checked the oil level on a flat driveway and it was mid point on the hash mark so I added a half quart and it was on the top. It has never been low on oil and has the typical condensation/black soot for about 10-15 seconds on start up. It doesn't look like oil burning and I am always steady in the same place on the stick when checked. (I check at least once a week due to being a TSB engine) I have experienced a rough feeling idle for about a week and a half, not really bad but enough for me to notice. I have since dismissed this as some bad gas. (it happens)

My driving habits are usually full temp runs with very little short tripping. My drive is a mix of city/hwy commute for 35-40 miles one way. Normally I'm at less than 400 miles a week) Several trips to family get togethers that run about 350 miles one way. I admit to turning off the autostart/stop by pressing the button nearly everytime I drive. Exceptions to that are when I can drive without the AC on, and when I've had it running longer than 15 minutes. Probably stupid to do this but who knows? I'm comfortable with the engineering behind this feature and don't think it hurts anything but I prefer to be at temp with fluids before it does its thing. It is a seamless function and works so well that its surprising for someone using the technology for the first time.

I rarely WOT the engine but sometimes I will do it just for fun. I do a rolling start before WOT to not stress the driveline. I have never spun the tires, something I quit doing after I started buying tires. I do minimal towing well below the max, rarely drive over 75mph, and my overall MPG for the truck is averaging 22mpg by hand calculating distance/gallons in. I try to always fill in the morning and at 1 of three regular places.

The only thing I am doing is upping the viscosity of my oil. I've run 10w-30 the past two changes. 5w-30 before that, and always synthetic after dumping the FF at 2k miles. I am using a 5k OCI cause that makes me happy. I let fast lane do the free change at 10k miles and wound up almost two quarts over full, yes I actually measured by filling empty bottles. That caused me to drain the sump and refill.

Real world driving info for those within the TSB range as I am. When I hit my one year anniversary with the truck I'll start a thread here for others to see whats going on with my 2.7 and if any warranty work becomes necessary. Trouble free miles so far on this engine for me.
 
Sorry for reviving an old thread, but this has been the most informative so far in my quest to figure out whats going on.

I've got a 2016 F150 with a 2.7 EcoBoost and thought I would share my experience. At around 12k miles I had the well known mosquito screen coming out of my exhaust with oil consumption around 1 quart per 1k miles. Took it in and they replaced the cylinder heads. Fast forward to right now at just over 26k miles, and I noticed about a month ago a small amount of smoke at startup. Took it in and initial diagnosis was heads.....again. I get a phone call today telling me that Ford raised an eyebrow at a second set of heads. So, I'm told that Ford wants more tests including an oil consumption test and that "the techs are going to have to put some miles on my truck". Fine, just fix it.

Now I'm blue oval to the core, so this isn't a bash Ford post. Having said that, as soon as I can trade out of this truck I'm going to get in to a 5.0. Initial problem was rough paint. No biggie. Next came leaking oil pan and that was replaced. After that, heads were replaced. Following heads, the transmission thermostat stuck sending my trans temp through the roof, and it was replaced. Now I've got either an issue with heads again or some other underlying problem yet to be diagnosed and my left tail light has water ingress. Apparently my truck was built by folks that were working forced overtime during a holiday weekend. If I could apply lemon law I would, but since they've given me a loaner truck each time I don't think the 30 day rule applies. Getting really frustrated.

As an aside, all service has been performed at this dealership (oil changes, routine maintenance, warranty work) and thank God I never plugged a tuner in.
 
Originally Posted by Rt188
Sorry for reviving an old thread, but this has been the most informative so far in my quest to figure out whats going on.

I've got a 2016 F150 with a 2.7 EcoBoost and thought I would share my experience. At around 12k miles I had the well known mosquito screen coming out of my exhaust with oil consumption around 1 quart per 1k miles. Took it in and they replaced the cylinder heads. Fast forward to right now at just over 26k miles, and I noticed about a month ago a small amount of smoke at startup. Took it in and initial diagnosis was heads.....again. I get a phone call today telling me that Ford raised an eyebrow at a second set of heads. So, I'm told that Ford wants more tests including an oil consumption test and that "the techs are going to have to put some miles on my truck". Fine, just fix it.

Now I'm blue oval to the core, so this isn't a bash Ford post. Having said that, as soon as I can trade out of this truck I'm going to get in to a 5.0. Initial problem was rough paint. No biggie. Next came leaking oil pan and that was replaced. After that, heads were replaced. Following heads, the transmission thermostat stuck sending my trans temp through the roof, and it was replaced. Now I've got either an issue with heads again or some other underlying problem yet to be diagnosed and my left tail light has water ingress. Apparently my truck was built by folks that were working forced overtime during a holiday weekend. If I could apply lemon law I would, but since they've given me a loaner truck each time I don't think the 30 day rule applies. Getting really frustrated.

As an aside, all service has been performed at this dealership (oil changes, routine maintenance, warranty work) and thank God I never plugged a tuner in.


Does the smoke go away after it idles for a bit and warms up? How cold and how much humidity lately and what color?

I know the ecoboosts do smoke on startup when it is cold. My 11 and my 13 do it. It is just what they do. Usually a white smoke but it only lasts a few minutes if that. I heard it is just condensation.
 
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Usually a white smoke but it only lasts a few minutes if that.

White is moisture burning off. But, burning 1 quart per 1,000 miles is a definite sign of something wrong on a truck with 26,000 miles on it.
 
2.7L owner here, too. I had a scare early on but it's been solid now at 16k miles. It seemed to drop 1 quart in the first 1,000 - either that or the dealer delivered it already low. I think I caught it about 1/4 qt below Low. I topped it off .... and it hasn't used any since then, including a couple of trips pulling the travel trailer behind it. The last OC interval was 5,000 on 5-30 penzoil platinum and it didn't appear to use anything at all. This OC will be ~7500 and I'll probably stay at that interval and move to a 10-30 just in case chain guide wear and/or fuel dilution ends up being a thing with these motors.

My overall MPG is 21.5... excluding towing, which is fabulous for a 4x4 pickup. (extended cab, with a cap on the back).

I like the turbo - it never has to rev to deliver power. Only drawback is over long distances, when pulling, that turbo whine begins to drive me batty and i have to run some music or a podcast to cover it up.

I'm wary of the plastic oil pan, plastic drain plug, plastic valve covers.... and even more so on the added complexity - timing guides have had issues on some of the 3.5s, coolant fittings which are simple parts but intense to change... these are complicated motors. But if you've got a good one, they sure are nice to live with.

-m
 
Its not vapor. Sorry for the lapse in response. Got an update from the dealer and the final diagnosis from them and Ford was that the drivers side turbo had a bad seal and was leaking.

I took the truck in on may 20th. Still don't have my truck. I'm thankful that I did get a loaner and that the loaner was at least a 4 door truck.

My advice, doesn't matter the amount of smoke, take it in. If its a tuned truck, sure, I can see some black smoke. If its diesel, again I can understand black fuel rich smoke. But, and call me old school, if a motor is throwing any kind of white or blue smoke (cold weather condensation aside), there's something going on, regardless of what a shady service tech might tell you. If its under warranty take your truck in. There is 0 reason why our trucks should be spewing anything other than condensation/vapor out the exhaust.
 
"bad seal' seems to be a recurring issue with Ford's ecoboosts.

The 3.5 had a thing with a coolant seal on a crossover pipe that provided turbo coolant, and ran beneath the intake. It was an 0-ring if I understand. The problem was, as simple as a part as it is, the intake had to come off to change it.

The 2.7 had a run with bad valve seals. Ford warrantied it, of course, but the culprit was a number of head/long-block replacements from oil starvation.

In an earlier post, I mentioned that I think the 2.7 itself is probably going to end up being a solid motor, mechanically. It's the rubber/plastic bits that over time are going to pose the most risk. They will probably be quite long lived with owners who pay attention to fluid levels and general behaviors. The owner who doesn't check on them regularly as they collect miles and time may be in for an ugly surprise one morning. IDK, who can predict?
 
Got the truck back a couple days ago after the turbo swap.So far so good. But, given this particular truck's track record, I look in the mirror at every start up, check oil level and do a quick once over around every 2 weeks.

I would like to add, aside from smoke at start up, I did get a noticeable drop in mpg (anywhere from 2-4 mpg difference from norm), so that would be something else I would look for. We all know our vehicles fairly well I'm assuming and you know when its driving style, driving location, "bad" gas etc. when your mpg drops. If none of that has changed from the norm and your mileage drops, I would start paying attention and looking close.
 
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