bleeding brakes for the first time.

[DARKSCOPE001]

Hello all. So my girlfreinds dad has a van that needs its brakes bleed but I guess im unsure on how to do this. Today I tried the two man bleed and I think it did it right but all I got was frustration and a little bit of clean fluid out of the bleeder. Ok so this is what i did. Filled res with clean new dot 3 (what the vehicle calls for) cracked bleeder on rear left (furstes from master cyl) had gf press on brake untill fluid stoped flowing. closed bleeder. released brakes. opened and pressed again. and repeated this process untill I started getting cear fluid. But I could still hear a squirting sound as if air was in the system and the brakes werent firming up how I would like them. Am I doing this wrong? Also I was thinking about getting one of those one man bleeder kits. his is the one I was thinking about getting http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accesso...fier=46839_0_0_ does anyone have any luck with this kind of bleeder? most of the people I have seen do bleeding besides the two man bleed use a vacum pump http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-92474.html Can anyone tell me if im doing this wrong and if I do go with one of the bleeder tools with the cheep oem one work or should I save and get a nicer vacum one (perhaps not the harbor freight model but something similar)

THANKS
Sean Scott

 

[unDummy]

If you plan on bleeding several cars every year, than a vacuum or pressure bleeder should definitely be considered. Motive and Mityvac are in my garage.

http://www.motiveproducts.com/
http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_bcbe.asp

Don't open bleeder without pressure in system. This means that GF needs to put the brake pedal down a tad prior to opening the bleeder. Open bleeder and GF needs to signal to you when the pedal stops at the floor so that you can close bleeder quickly. Once bleeder is closed, GF needs to pump brake pedal several times to 'refill' prior repeating that bleeder. Then repeat until 8 ounces removed per bleeder.

 

[firefighter]

Never Never Never push the brake pedal down till the fluid stops, that is the fastest way to a new master cylinder. what happens is the cups in the M/C rub over rough spots not in the normal travel and they wear/tear. So then in a week or so you will be at a red light and notice the brake pedal sinking to the floor, or you will not build proper pressure. Cheapest way get 3-4 foot clear hose that fits snug on the bleeders put one end on bleeder other end submerged in a bottle with a little brake fluid, crack the bleeder and have some one pump the brakes, but not any more then about 1/4-1/2 way to the floor, when you see clear fluid close the screw while they are pressing down. Then proceed to next bleeder and so on. Just make sure the M/C stays full.

 

[DARKSCOPE001]

so then could I build my own collector/ one man bleeder? ive seen diy on how to do it using a length of clear hose and a mason jar. What do you guys think? I was thinking about getting one of those vacs but at the same time I was just curious if something else would suffice. Any and all advice would be appreciated.

THANKS
Sean Scott

 

[HTSS_TR]

I have Mityvac fluid extractor MV7201 to do oil change and use it to flush the brake. It works great without any problem with air in the system. It is expensive at about $70+ from Amazon, but it work great in extracting oil in my E430 so that I don't have to lift the car to do oil change. I also use it to change transmission fluid too.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: unDummy

Don't open bleeder without pressure in system. This means that GF needs to put the brake pedal down a tad prior to opening the bleeder. Open bleeder and GF needs to signal to you when the pedal stops at the floor so that you can close bleeder quickly. Once bleeder is closed, GF needs to pump brake pedal several times to 'refill' prior repeating that bleeder. Then repeat until 8 ounces removed per bleeder.


A little OT but: Assuming there is no air in the system, can you simply open the bleeder w/o any pressure on the pedal and gravity bleed a brake system to get fresh fluid into it?

 

[Maritime Storm]

What kind of van? Some Chrysler & GM Products with ABS won't bleed past the ABS unit to the rear unless the vehicle is running at the time. Dodge Caravans built after 99 are one example.

 

[DARKSCOPE001]

97 ford windstar. If it helps at all I was getting fluid at the bleeder. but i could not get the squishyness and the sound of air shooting through the system to go away. I do like the look of that pressure bleeder but man 70 bucks! whew! granted i should probably get something like it because I need to learn more on brakes anyways. and [censored] for all I know it could be usefull for aircraft as well as cars. Oh does anyone have any objections to DIY? I found several articles on how to make one using a garden sprayer and some various other parts. Im still wondering if anybody can tell me anything about back bleeding?

THANKS GUYS
Sean Scott

 

[Kestas]

Can you verify that you kept the master cylinder full through the procedure and that it never went dry?

 

[unDummy]

Garden sprayer pressure bleeder should work as long as you keep the master cylinder full.

Gravity bleed takes too much time.

 

[bigmike]

I've always done the 2-man method using a 1/4" hose (windshield wiper or vacuum hose works) and a clear jar/cup. Clean fluid goes into the M/C and cup, drop the hose in the cup, hook up hose to bleeder, yell up/down a bunch of times, and repeat 3 more times. I tend to take it out and activate the ABS once and do this process again within a week (sometimes the same day).

Works great and it's all done in less than 30 minutes, providing you don't need to jack up anything or remove wheels.

I think unDummy and firefighter got the method for the up/down right. Don't forget to pump the pedal to build pressure.

 

[dparm]

I've stopped bleeding my own fluid. Takes forever. I just let the pros do it with the vacuum system.

 

[TMoto]

Originally Posted By: Maritime Storm
Some Chrysler & GM Products with ABS won't bleed past the ABS unit to the rear unless the vehicle is running at the time.

Is there an online source to determine which vehicles need to be running? My vehicles have ABS and one has traction control as well, anything else to be concerned about with regards to ABS and bleeding with a Mityvac?

 

[RiverWolf]

Sean, you only mentioned doing one bleeder in your procedure. Did you actually do all 4 corners? The old ROT is starting at the farthest corner and working back towards the MC. However, at least in the case of my 4Runner/CRV, you work closest to farthest per the FSM. Either way, you need to do all four corners for a complete bleed.

-Brent

 

[DARKSCOPE001]

Originally Posted By: RiverWolf
Sean, you only mentioned doing one bleeder in your procedure. Did you actually do all 4 corners? The old ROT is starting at the farthest corner and working back towards the MC. However, at least in the case of my 4Runner/CRV, you work closest to farthest per the FSM. Either way, you need to do all four corners for a complete bleed.

-Brent

Yes I bleed all 4 corners. I might have to do it some more because I got interupted as I was compleating the front end. So I will look around But I need to do it on my car and probably my gf's car. So im trying to find something that i like that will give me a good brake bleed.

THANKS
Sean Scott

 

[bepperb]

I don't think you can evaluate with only doing one brake.

I bought a "one man bleeder" for five bucks, in reality I could have made one myself with some tubing and a cup. Not much to it. It works well.

 

[DARKSCOPE001]

i did all 4 not just 1. And I was wondering about those cheep one man bleeder units. Do they work or dont they? Im thinking about building one for the time being but eventualy i would like to get soemthing that works a bit better or build a pressure bleeder.

THANKS
Sean Scott

 

[bigmike]

I dislike any specialty bleeders. The 2man method, when properly performed, will make your pedal feel brick hard. But, it does require 2 people. My wife is my "volunteer."

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: firefighter
Never Never Never push the brake pedal down till the fluid stops, that is the fastest way to a new master cylinder. what happens is the cups in the M/C rub over rough spots not in the normal travel and they wear/tear. So then in a week or so you will be at a red light and notice the brake pedal sinking to the floor, or you will not build proper pressure. Cheapest way get 3-4 foot clear hose that fits snug on the bleeders put one end on bleeder other end submerged in a bottle with a little brake fluid, crack the bleeder and have some one pump the brakes, but not any more then about 1/4-1/2 way to the floor, when you see clear fluid close the screw while they are pressing down. Then proceed to next bleeder and so on. Just make sure the M/C stays full.


Unless you're talking about severly neglected system, it's a non issue, otherwise you would have a damaged master cylinder pretty much every time you change brake pads, since the brake pedal always goes to the floor for the first few pumps, but we all know that's not happening. The theory is there, but practice suggests very slim chances of this happening.

 

[mechtech2]

Submerging a hose in fluid in a can is a technique often repeated.

I see no reason why. Who cares how the old stuff dumps?

Also, to bleed by submerging a line and simply pumping the brakes is useless - you will go back in and out.

A vacuum bleed is real easy - just keep your master cyl full!
A mity-
Vac or similar knock off can be obtained for a reasonable outlay of $.
Make sure your bleeder is broken free and is loose enough to work, first. Then simply attach your line, pump it up a bit, loosen the bleeder with the line on it, and let the fluid dump in a can/whatever. Then tighten it while vacuum is still applied.
Works well and is fast.