bias against American cars
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The unfortunate part of this is that domestic maintenance schedules in manuals are woefully inadequate if you are interested in keeping cars past 100K. I can't find any change interval on the Ford 4R70W at all. Often there is no mention of brake fluid flushing or mandatory coolant changes even with the green stuff. And rear ends are supposed to last forever with the same lube now. Guess what, they won't. And people that followed the inadequate maintenance schedules will be less than happy when 150K miles rolls around.
There are horror stories from all sides of the argument. I had a friend in high school who's parents loved Chevettes. Both he and his brother was forced to drive one. He told me those little cars ran forever and gave them almost zero problems. I know people with Blazers (little ones)
and have heard some scream about what a piece of junk they are and others say they have never had a day of trouble since owning the vehicle. I remember back in the late eights and early nineties that I knew no one that had a Chrysler Mini van that didn't have at least one transmission replaced.
One friend dumped her Jeep Grand Cherokee at 50K because she was afraid it was going to need a transmission. You see she never had one days worth of trouble with that Jeep but when she went to the dealer and saw 6 transmissions lined up and ready to be install she got worried that hers was next. They were not for the cars in the shop those where the transmissions they kept on hand for replacing.
I know one thing the dealer I went to had the Chevrolet bays right across from the Volvo bays.
The Volvo guys were busy all the time with normal maintenance services and the Chevrolet guys spent most of the time playing pocket billiards. The Chevrolet techs practically said they only time they ever saw a car was when the owner couldn't find a local garage to fix what was wrong. I think American car owners are as a group more cheap when it comes to performing required maintenance on their cars. The people I know that have properly maintain there American cars seem to be having good luck with their vehicles. Those cars are in the 1995 through 2001 age range so we will see how thing go as the mileage racks up. My brother in laws father has close to 140K on his LeSaber and has had zero problems and the car runs great.
[ June 01, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: ALS ]
and have heard some scream about what a piece of junk they are and others say they have never had a day of trouble since owning the vehicle. I remember back in the late eights and early nineties that I knew no one that had a Chrysler Mini van that didn't have at least one transmission replaced.
One friend dumped her Jeep Grand Cherokee at 50K because she was afraid it was going to need a transmission. You see she never had one days worth of trouble with that Jeep but when she went to the dealer and saw 6 transmissions lined up and ready to be install she got worried that hers was next. They were not for the cars in the shop those where the transmissions they kept on hand for replacing.
I know one thing the dealer I went to had the Chevrolet bays right across from the Volvo bays.
The Volvo guys were busy all the time with normal maintenance services and the Chevrolet guys spent most of the time playing pocket billiards. The Chevrolet techs practically said they only time they ever saw a car was when the owner couldn't find a local garage to fix what was wrong. I think American car owners are as a group more cheap when it comes to performing required maintenance on their cars. The people I know that have properly maintain there American cars seem to be having good luck with their vehicles. Those cars are in the 1995 through 2001 age range so we will see how thing go as the mileage racks up. My brother in laws father has close to 140K on his LeSaber and has had zero problems and the car runs great.
[ June 01, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: ALS ]
On the diesel pickups:
The older Chevy diesel was so underpowered that some have stated that you just didn't see them in the mountains. The newer Isuzu seems to go through a lot oi expensive injectors.
The 7.3 International in the Ford was pretty well developed but the automatic transmissions seem to be prone to early failure, as a couple of corworkers have experienced. The new 6.0 diesel had so many problems that the rumor is that Ford is looking for another dieel engine supplier.
The earlier Cummins had some weak spots as mentioned, and I guess I'll see what they are on the 2003 model. Still, coworkers with the Dodges seem to have had fewer problems than the Fords.
I had the impression that Dodge owners bought the truck for the Cummins powertrain and put up with everything else, while the Ford and Chevy owners bought their trucks for everything else and put up with the powertrain.
The older Chevy diesel was so underpowered that some have stated that you just didn't see them in the mountains. The newer Isuzu seems to go through a lot oi expensive injectors.
The 7.3 International in the Ford was pretty well developed but the automatic transmissions seem to be prone to early failure, as a couple of corworkers have experienced. The new 6.0 diesel had so many problems that the rumor is that Ford is looking for another dieel engine supplier.
The earlier Cummins had some weak spots as mentioned, and I guess I'll see what they are on the 2003 model. Still, coworkers with the Dodges seem to have had fewer problems than the Fords.
I had the impression that Dodge owners bought the truck for the Cummins powertrain and put up with everything else, while the Ford and Chevy owners bought their trucks for everything else and put up with the powertrain.
I read more than once in different auto magazines that the Buick LeSaber is one of the most reliable domestic cars and makes a good used car.
Does this still hold true if you compare models and not brands?
For example, Ford has had several models that have been great...and several that have not been so great.
The 6.2L and 6.5L Chevy diesels needed all the help they could get. The early Duramax engines had injector failures, but those are now history. The Duramax/Allison combo is great now.
I can honestly say the automatic transmission behind my 7.3L powerstroke is MUCH better than the 47RE that was behind my Cummins.
I bought my Dodge thinking I would put up with the truck to get the Cummins. It wasn't worth it. I got the worst of the worst as far as Cummins engines go... early injection pump, constant lift pump replacement, and #53 block. I couldnt afford to keep both the truck and engine working. Axle seals went out in a hurry, steering was shot to heck, speakers kept blowing for some odd reason (stock radio not turned up loud), A/C compressor went, TC started slipping, side mirrors got really loose, inside sounded like it was filled with marbles, blah blah blah... I could go on forever. The truck was a 1999 with only 50,000 miles. All of the problems I listed happened over the course of 15,000 and 8 months. I guess the 3rd gen Rams are much improved, but I don't feel like wasting my time anymore. I'll make ekpolk happy and buy a Toyota before I get another DiamlerChrysler product.
I bought my Ford as the total package.... great engine in a great truck. It is a 2001 with 102,000 miles on it. I have had it for a few weeks and already put 2,000 miles on it. I haven't had to fix anything yet which is more than I can say for the Dodge. The owner before me beat the snot out of it everyday, but I got an amazing deal on it so I can't complain. I plan on something breaking, but if it holds up, you will hear me raving about Fords for life.
I'd love to see a Toyota or Nissan 3/4 or 1 ton diesel. I'd definetly have to give them a try. My father has a 1990 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4 with 160k on it that has seen some serious abuse. I can't believe how trouble free it has been and how well it has held up with just good regular fluid changes. Still not a drop of oil that leaks out or that gets burned.
I'm not brand loyal... I buy what works for me.
I know people especially who own domestics dislike Consumer Reports reviews of auto's. Anyway I was persusing the Auto issue. Guess which midsize was shown to most reliable for 2003 model (including weight for years past), Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Mazda 6, Nissan Altima, or Buick Regal?
Buick Regal....
They were not nice in their review which I tend to agree with some points aftering renting one however this is a bargain for a person looking for comfort and reliability and likely poor resale in the used market. Their main point was an older design compared to comparable cars for 2003 however its due for replacement soon.
Buick Regal....
They were not nice in their review which I tend to agree with some points aftering renting one however this is a bargain for a person looking for comfort and reliability and likely poor resale in the used market. Their main point was an older design compared to comparable cars for 2003 however its due for replacement soon.
(or was abandoned on the side of the road--MOST of the cars I see abandoned on the road..ie, tags removed...are older Toyota/Honda/Nisssan/etc models). [/QB][/QUOTE]
I always thought those were stolen cars. It wouldn't be too difficult for the police (or towing company) to run the VIN and fine (or charge towing fees) the owner.
I always thought those were stolen cars. It wouldn't be too difficult for the police (or towing company) to run the VIN and fine (or charge towing fees) the owner.
I don't know--who would steal a beat-up old car? Which is what most of those are.
I figure that it's more likely that the owner of the car isn't the brightest bulb in the socket and figures that removing the plates is all it takes to keep the police from figuring out who owned it.
I agree with Gene K about one thing for sure, the European cars have been slipping. I know Volvo mechanics who currently recommend you DO NOT buy a new Volvo.
Think Daimler’s acquisition of Mercedes is going to improve Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth quality and reliability? Think again. Mercedes have become very trouble prone over the past few years according to a few sources. I know I wouldn’t want to own one ... even if I could afford one.
But I really think it’s a myth that people don’t take proper car of American cars. What about all the clueless girlie girls out there in Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, etc ... who neglect their cars??
Like others have said, whatever I’ve owned I took really good care of. That's not the problem. Most of the failures I've seen could not have been maintenance related.
I picked up some new anecdotes over the weekend: a buddy whose Focus is overheating has a twin brother with a Ford pick-up … who blew a head gasket on Tuesday despite having only 17,000 miles. Oh, and another buddy of mine blew the 3.0 V6 engine in his late model Ford Taurus wagon (threw a rod, he said) at 45,000 miles. Bought it used and had it for 1 year before the motor went.
There are 3 people who may never buy another Ford product. Who could blame them?
--- Bror Jace
Think Daimler’s acquisition of Mercedes is going to improve Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth quality and reliability? Think again. Mercedes have become very trouble prone over the past few years according to a few sources. I know I wouldn’t want to own one ... even if I could afford one.
But I really think it’s a myth that people don’t take proper car of American cars. What about all the clueless girlie girls out there in Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, etc ... who neglect their cars??
Like others have said, whatever I’ve owned I took really good care of. That's not the problem. Most of the failures I've seen could not have been maintenance related.
I picked up some new anecdotes over the weekend: a buddy whose Focus is overheating has a twin brother with a Ford pick-up … who blew a head gasket on Tuesday despite having only 17,000 miles. Oh, and another buddy of mine blew the 3.0 V6 engine in his late model Ford Taurus wagon (threw a rod, he said) at 45,000 miles. Bought it used and had it for 1 year before the motor went.
There are 3 people who may never buy another Ford product. Who could blame them?
--- Bror Jace
I'm confused too, since I've seen several of these that are so screwed up they're blowing blue smoke at idle. Plus on most of those, failure to change the timing belt results in a scrapped engine..and how many clueless girlie girls get the timing belt changed when they're supposed to?quote:
Originally posted by Bror Jace:
What about all the clueless girlie girls out there in Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, etc ... who neglect their cars??
Back to the blue smoke issue however, exactly how long can you neglect to check or change the oil before the engine locks up, especially when it's obviously burning it at a significant rate?
I've *NEVER* seen the same one twice though, so for all I know, it locked up and went to the junkyard a week later (or was abandoned on the side of the road--MOST of the cars I see abandoned on the road..ie, tags removed...are older Toyota/Honda/Nisssan/etc models).
Did this, per chance, coincide w/ Ford aquiring the automotive division?
Actually that may be a little unfair; I've heard that since the 70's there are three truths that Volvo owners hold dear:
1) Volvos are very reliable cars
2) Volvos are very economical cars
3) Truths 1 & 2 apply to all Volvos but theirs!
One Family I know bought a Mid-Eighties 2.8L TBI Chevy Celebrity and as a result now only drives Fords.
Another bought a Mid-Eighties Mercury Topaz and now drives GM's.
It only takes one (perceived) lemon to change many peoples buying practices but the roles could just as easily be reversed.
I have owned many cars over the years and while I have sometimes had problems I have never encountered a true lemon... only incompetent mechanics...
Gene
Because that is what the data shows. I never understood why people get so hung up on this issue.
One person's experience doesn't mean anything. You have to look at the millions of cars sold and how many problems. Used car data, new car data and surveys.
Per 100 cars, Toyota and Honda have LESS problems. That is a fact. There are some people that have owned say a Ford Taurus and Honda Civic and had better luck with the Ford in terms of reliability. So what? That doesn't mean anything statistically. Take 50,000 Ford Taurus owners and 50,000 Civic owners and then start drawing some conclusions.
You do know what AUDI stands for, don't you???
A -- Acceleration
U -- Under
D -- Demonic
I -- Influence
Seriously, Audi makes some fine cars, but here's my Toyota counterpoint/bias. Look at the IIHS frontal results. The Audis were only OK performers whereas the Camry and Avalon were extaordinary. Try these links:
Audi A6 Crash Results
Toyota Avalon Crash Test Results
Toyota Camry Crash Test Results
A -- Acceleration
U -- Under
D -- Demonic
I -- Influence
Seriously, Audi makes some fine cars, but here's my Toyota counterpoint/bias. Look at the IIHS frontal results. The Audis were only OK performers whereas the Camry and Avalon were extaordinary. Try these links:
Audi A6 Crash Results
Toyota Avalon Crash Test Results
Toyota Camry Crash Test Results
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