BF Goodrich AT KO questiions

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ccdhowell

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Shreveport, Louisiana
I need new tires soon on my '07 F250 with 4" lift. I currently run 325/60R20 Toyo Open Country ATs that are D load rated. I have gotten almost 50K miles from these tires and really like them. However I've never run the BFGs and wanted to give them a try; they are E load rated which will give me a better piece of mind when I pull our 33' toy hauler.

So my questions for those that have run the BFG AT KO are:
1. How is the noise? When new and when worn?
2. How do they hold up pulling a heavy trailer?
3. What kind of mileage can I expect with 3 to 4K miles annually pulling my trailer?
4. How do they handle on the street when not loaded?
5. How do they perform on wet roads?
6. How is the ride comfort?


Tire choice is a big deal and tires in my size cost so much money that I don't want to make the wrong choice. The BFGs should be a good tire for my driving habits, what do you guys think?
 
Originally Posted By: ccdhowell


So my questions for those that have run the BFG AT KO are:
1. How is the noise? When new and when worn?
2. How do they hold up pulling a heavy trailer?
3. What kind of mileage can I expect with 3 to 4K miles annually pulling my trailer?
4. How do they handle on the street when not loaded?
5. How do they perform on wet roads?
6. How is the ride comfort?


People seem to either love or hate BFG ATs, so I think it must depend a lot on vehicle. Well, that and the fact that they are inherently a compromise- they won't offroad like **** Cepek tires, and they won't corner like Pirellis. But they do enable on/off road use, and I like the fact that they're LT rated with beefier sidewalls than on-road tires. I put them on my daughter's Cherokee, so my results are based on that vehicle:

1) noise: louder than street SUV tires (eg BFG Long Trail), but not deafening by any means. They do get a little louder with some miles.

2)Don't know- never trailered with her Cherokee. But they SHOULD be pretty good based on the load ratings.

3) Again, no idea, but my daughter's are showing very, very little wear at about 15k miles.

4)On the Cherokee, they handle quite well. I never really push either of the Cherokees to the handling limit, but on dry pavement they seem very comparable to the Long Trail T/As I have on my 01. They probably have a little more "slip", but its not like they break loose violently or unpredictably as some tires do. They just creep sideways a little more than a tire with a less blocky tread might. I guess its like maybe 5% more understeer, if that helps describe the sensation.

5) Wet traction was the most pleasant surprise of all. I'd read reviews that said everything from "great in the wet" to "these things are the worst tire ever made in the wet!!!" so I went in not really knowing what to expect. Bottom line, they resist hydroplaning extremely well, and they also grip a lightly wet "greasy" road about as well the Long Trail TAs do. The latter- a road lightly wetted down after being dry and oily- is probably the most dangerous driving condition in my area and they handle it as well as any tire can. When the road is that slick, tread doesn't matter nearly as much as tire compound and how flat the tread stays planted on the road, so I think their LT rating and stiff sidewalls may help- just a guess there.

6) Ride comfort- hard for me to say. Solid-axle Jeeps are inherently pretty bouncy, but the ATs seem comparable to regular tires. I suspect that the differences between the AT and street SUV tires show up more in vehicles a little less brutish than Jeep Cherokees. If I was driving a modern Grand Cherokee with independent suspension, a soft ride, quiet cabin, etc., then I'd probably find the road noise more intrusive and the handling more affected than I do on the old lovable solid-axle Cherokee.
 
Originally Posted By: ccdhowell


So my questions for those that have run the BFG AT KO are:
1. How is the noise? When new and when worn?
2. How do they hold up pulling a heavy trailer?
3. What kind of mileage can I expect with 3 to 4K miles annually pulling my trailer?
4. How do they handle on the street when not loaded?
5. How do they perform on wet roads?
6. How is the ride comfort?


Ive used these on my S10 ZR2 since new, and love them. Very long lasting tires and the snow traction rating really is good, they are great in snow IME.

1) Ive never thought of them as very noisy, though from the outside you can hear that the truck is on off-road tires. Are they like a car tire? No, but I dont see them as noisy. Ive driven worse on car tires in econoboxes.

2) Cant say about trailering, but the FIL just got some put on his F150 in tropical use that does include very heavy loading of cargo. He pulls a trailer, and we just pulled a boat from a slippery dock yesterday without needing 4WD.

3) My C-range BFG ATs are rated to 50 PSI. Id imagine that life will be mostly based upon how well you keep pressure up when loading the tires. Ive found personally that UV kills the tires long before mileage - Id say they are 70-100k tires if treated right. My first set went 50k and had much more than 50% of original tread. I didnt trailer, but we hauled some heavy loads quite a bit and did a lot of off-road driving.

4) youre not going to confuse them for a car tire, especially with a high sidewall, but the flat tread profile seems to lock up well and allow corners to be taken with good speed. Id imagine an E rated tire is as stiff as any H or V rated car tire... its just the sidewall height...

5) Going up severe curved inclines in the F150 recently, far more steep than anything you see in most of the USA, Id say they do well. You may hear a little slip, but you do on car tires too - I saw a civic spin its tires to go around one uphill curve. Nothing like that from the BFGs. They lock up pretty well, especially because they are siped a bit.

6) I think this is going to be more dependent upon air pressure and loading than anything else. Ive never had a real complaint about the tires, but I drive a pickup (short bed S10 ZR2) that may not be a good comparison.
 
IMO going from the Toyos to BFGs would be a step backwards.

I've owned more than one set of the BFGs. Last set was 2008 IIRC. IMO,they're riding on reputation.

I've ran the following A/Ts and liked them all better than the BFGs.

Toyo Open Country A/T
Toyo M55
Nitto Terra Grappler
Hankook ATM RF10
Goodyear Silent Armors

BFGs would be way down the list of A/Ts I'd purchase today,and I definately wouldn't put them on a HD truck.
 
I've got 45k on a set right now. 265/75-16 E-rated on the Tacoma. Of course it's not a heavy duty application like yours, but I'll offer what advice I can.

They were certainly noisier than the highway tires my little truck came with, but not alarmingly so. There's a hum at highway speed, but it's nothing to keep you from buying them.

I've only towed 5,000 lbs. with the Taco. It has done well, but I can't much comment on your heavier trailering.

Rotate at 5,000 or annually when you change the oil in your rig. I plan on swapping them out this fall before the snow flies. They'll be pretty well worn with 55,000 on them then. Even with heavy towing, 40,000 should be no problem. The key though, is to get an alignment, proper balancing, and rotate at 5k. If you see uneven wear, fix the problem.

They're a bit bouncy and unloaded, but smooth out nicely with four sandbags (280 lbs) in the bed. No worries there.

I don't know where you tow your trailer, but I've found that tread pattern to be less than ideal on rain or light snow. Plenty of slipping around. They're much better in heavy snow, sand, or mud where there's something to dig into, but I'm overall not pleased with the wet performance.

I also drive a Tahoe and Chevy 2500 at work. They both have Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor Pro Grade tires on them. Both E rated. I found them to be better in all categories except for mud and very deep snow. I'll be buying these in October. For your trailering, ride, and wet performance I'd consider looking at them, although I don't know if they come in 20".
 
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Thanks for the responses guys. Bandito hit the nail on the head, there aren't many choices in my size range. I would likely choose another tire if I had more choice, i.e. the Silent Armor. I have heard that BFG is running on reputation as Stewart Fan suggested, perhaps the quality fell when Michelin bought them, they are certainly priced like a premium tire. I gave some thought to the "internet" brands, Mickey Thompson and **** Cepek, but they were bought by Cooper a few years ago and I haven't had good luck with Coopers in the past. I may just stay with the Toyo Open Country ATs, they are a superior tire, but I was looking for more load capacity, hence the idea of the BFGs. This is all so darned stressful, especially when my tire bill will be over 2 grand no matter which one I choose.
 
Expand your search to 35x12.5x20

Basically the same size you're running now,but I think you'll find a bigger selection of E rated tires like you want.

I know Toyo offers their MT in that size.
 
Originally Posted By: Stewart Fan
Expand your search to 35x12.5x20

Basically the same size you're running now,but I think you'll find a bigger selection of E rated tires like you want.

I know Toyo offers their MT in that size.


Yeah, I know. This is a road/dirt road/field truck, it never sees any real mud. If I could buy a highway tread tire the right size I would.
 
I think BFG is somewhat pricing the AT on reputation, but if anything the quality has gotten better in recent years. I've been buying various BFGs for 20 years now, and the time they got so bad that I swore I had walked away forever was right around 1998 to 2000, somewhere in there. But I was forced back by the fact that they were about the only game in town for muscle cars, and it was obvious that they'd completely changed since my last set, and I've been reasonably pleased with them since. No tire failures at all with them is a strong point for me, after having some other brands undergo tread separation early in life.

As I said, the BFG AT KO is clearly a compromise tire. Its not the greatest at anything... You can find another tire that does any one thing that it does better, but its hard to find a tire that balances all the capabilities quite the same way. That, IMO, is why its still around more than just riding on reputation. The Goodyear Silent Armor is a newer name, and I know little about it. It might be the next big competitor, as might the Firestone Destination A/T, judging by TireRack's sortable survey table:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=ORAT&VT=null&sortValue=2

The BFG A/T still ranks near the top in "would buy again," which is one of the more meaningful items in a survey like that IMO. But the Goodyear and Firestone offerings seem to win overall. Take that survey for what its worth- probably a lot of bias toward the newer tire name on the scene.
 
The SilentArmors come in 305/60-20. Is that too small for you?

I also see that the Wrangler DuraTrac is available in 325. Those are the "commercial traction" tire which may suit your towing requirements. I don't know anything else about them though other than reviews I have read.
 
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Looking at Tire Rack,I think I'd go with General's Grabber AT/2 in 35x12.5x20

They're $356 vs the 325/60/20 BFGs at $493.

The Grabbers are rated 3 spots higher than the BFGs at Tire rack.

The Grabbers are also an E rated tire.

My first choice would be to stick with the Toyos.
 
Of course the elephant in the room is... do you really want to stick with 20" tires and the obscene replacement cost for them in a truck that's doing real work? As soon as the OEM 20" tires are worn out on the Ram, I'll find an eBay set of factory 17" take-off wheels and buy some real truck tires with decent sidewall height. The selection of LT tires is MUCH broader in 17" than in 20".
 
Originally Posted By: ccdhowell
Yeah, you're right, but the 20s look so danged cool!


The look is sorta growing on me... until I see a nice set of 17s with some beefy LT tires wrapped around them and it takes me back. I've always been a fan of bigger tires rather than bigger rims. When F1, IRL, and NASCAR start running low-profile tires, then I'll believe that they're good for anything other than looks. Granted, most truck 20s aren't really all that low-profile, they still have a reasonable amount of sidewall left and are perfectly capable of doing truck work. Its just the excessive replacement cost and more limited selection that are the real drawbacks.
 
I would agree with most of 440's comments. But the 20's do look good on a big truck.

The stock 265/70/17's on my Silverados look great as well, big and beefy while filling up that wheel well nicely.

I wonder if those 20's cause any loss of component life in brakes or front end parts?
 
Originally Posted By: Stewart Fan
IMO going from the Toyos to BFGs would be a step backwards.

I've owned more than one set of the BFGs. Last set was 2008 IIRC. IMO,they're riding on reputation.

I've ran the following A/Ts and liked them all better than the BFGs.

Toyo Open Country A/T
Toyo M55
Nitto Terra Grappler
Hankook ATM RF10
Goodyear Silent Armors

BFGs would be way down the list of A/Ts I'd purchase today,and I definately wouldn't put them on a HD truck.


Ditto.

You couldn't give me another set of the BFG KO's, I hated them!

They're great when they're new and/or on a lightweight truck; they're terrible on heavy trucks, IMHO.

Wouldn't run another set if you paid me too.
 
Well, went by my tire dealer and checked on tires. My dealer can get BFG, but at no great price; they carry Toyo and Yokahoma. When I have time I'm gonna take the truck over and see if the 305/60R20s look too short. My tire guy said he's mount them up so I could take a look and decide. I've had such good luck out of my Toyos it would seem silly to not buy them again. I guess I just always like to try something new. I've bought Toyo Open Country's the last 6 times I've bought tires on various trucks and SUVs. It's hard to stay that loyal, the "try something else" bug is killing me.

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll let you know what I decided on in a couple weeks.
 
Originally Posted By: ccdhowell
I guess I just always like to try something new.


I'm the same way. Unless a tire really wows me,I'm always looking for something better.

Sometimes that something new is better,sometimes its not.
 
As promised, I'm posting my purchase decision.

Well, as fate would have it, Toyo changed/updated their AT tire just a few weeks ago to a new, slightly more aggressive tread and a nicer looking sidewall; new sizes too. So today I had 4 of them put on my truck in 35x12.50R20 and they're E load range, which is what prompted this tread in the first place. I obviously don't have many miles on them, but they sure do look good and the tread is noticeably deeper than the older design. $1,782 out the door isn't too bad for a tire this big either.
 
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