Better filter media or Better filter bypass ?

[iunderpressure]

I like pureones filtering ablity, but I like the thread end bypass valves like on wix. I don't like the idea of oil running past the dirty side of the filter. What is your take?

In my car the filter is vertical with the threads up, so I think you may have some dirty or metal settle at the bottom of the can while the car is off.

 

[Herz]

I like thread end bypasses like on Wix and Champ Ecore. If the oil in bypass mode runs throught he bottom of the filter and dirty media I think its picking up a bunch of stuff you dont need. Especially the heavier stuff that would usually settle to the bottom.

 

[Gary Allan]

I don't sweat the open end/closed end deal. Silt is a possibility. I don't buy the "passing over" thing too much. Oil is trying to push through the same media at a right angle from flow. I see cascading, reduced flows as you descend into the filter. The oil wants to take the easiest path and not descend into a dead end in a still-well. What's at rest wants to stay at rest (silt).

 

[iunderpressure]

I agree with you Gary on the fact that pressure is holding the dirt in the media when the bypass is open, but my fear is when the car is turned off and the pressure is removed. How much dirt could settle to the bottom? The next time the bypass opens, the oil carries your dirt into the engine.

 

[labman]

I really dislike the idea of dome end bypasses. However, Fram has them among other disliked features. Yet, as frequently mentioned, the junkyards are not filled with engines running the OCOD. All the data I have seen here shows oil filters make little difference. You may as well run an ST or something else cheap and not worry about it. It is a good place to buy American where performance seems to make little difference.

 

[Sayjac]

I'm with GA on this, and just don't think it as big deal either way, for the same reason(s). While several of the auto manufacturers (Ford MC, Mopar) seem to prefer it in some apps, AFAIK none spec it for warranty purposes, and the majority don't use thread end as OE.

That said, if thread end makes you more confident, use it. Wix, Mopar and Motorcraft make quality thread end bypass filters, the last being a great value. For me, I do not include the cheesy nitrile combo valve of ST ecores, because rubber doesn't fit with the durable metal design of the others. I wouldn't buy an ecore to point to rubber thread end as the reason.

 

[labman]

Metal to metal seals are well know for their leaks.

 

[hofcat]

It' not like all the oil is going to dump through the bypass when it opens. When the bypass pressure is reached the valve starts to crack open to bypass enough oil to keep the pressure under control. Much if not the vast majority of the oil should still be flowing through the filter media. As for settling our silt, the the bypass value is likely to open on every engine start when the engine oil is cold. I do not believe it is a rare event so I do not see how silt is likely to build up at the bottom of the filter. If there is enough silt in the volume of oil in the filter to settle out, that would be some pretty dirty oil and I think you would have bigger problems. The bypass values with metal seals probably do have some leak by but I feel that the leak by is likely insignificant to the total flow through the media. I can not see how a small amount of flow through the bypass valve is going to flush out dirt deep in the media folds that still have a lot of oil going through them. I do not believe the small amount of unfiltered oil that may be leaking by a metal bypass valve would be damaging to the engine. If it was, that wold be some pretty dirty oil and there would be bigger problems. Having said all that, I am curious as to why a filter engineer would chose a dome end versus a base end bypass. I do not see how one is better than the other but there may be some advantages or disadvantages to one or the other. It may simply be one is cheaper or easier to manufacture than the other. This is just my speculation, I am an mechanical engineer but I have no test data this.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: hofcat
As for settling our silt, the the bypass value is likely to open on every engine start when the engine oil is cold.


Depends on how cold it is and what oil is being used. If you are talking well below freezing without using a full synthetic oil, then yes, it probably is a common occurrence during cold start ups.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: iunderpressure
I like pureones filtering ablity, but I like the thread end bypass valves like on wix. I don't like the idea of oil running past the dirty side of the filter. What is your take?


If a threaded end bypass is important, then I'd run the WIX or NAPA Gold and not look back.

 

[iunderpressure]

I don't know if it is important or not that's why I asked. I like pureones, but their case is a little on the light side. Wix filters are heavier, but I don't think they filter as well. I also like the royal purple and Mobil 1 filters. I could just buy a case of W917 Mann filters.

 

[Gary Allan]

Your perceptions are for the most part correct. I've had cause to rethink the importance of fine filtering and feel that all the + and - of the topic are really misrepresented if not ..hmmm..viewed when taking the proposed life use cycle into account ..which must include a service severity factor.

That is, just saying "I use the best!", may not be doing you any good even if you're using the finest filter available.

 

[labman]

It is hard to think that a Fram, ST, or a Total Grip is as good as a Royal Purple or K&N. It is even harder to find evidence one way or the other.

 

[Gary Allan]

It depends on the life cycle and proposed service. A fine filter will not start out as a fine filter. So you're paying a premium for filtration that you may not be taking advantage of.

Now, sure, a 15um nominal filter is better at filtering than a 20-30um nominal rated filter. If the holding capacity is comparable, the finer filter is going to be shot sooner if the service is long enough.

There's a few interactive/inter-impacting factors going on there.


This is why I THINK (an opinion) why hydraulic filters are not rated under the same protocol as automotive filters. They're not dealing with a variable insoluble factor. They're just there to filter shedding materials and not "produced" byproducts. The nominal rating is more indicative of what one should expect in minute to minute ..hour to hour performance. In an automotive scenario you're operating on a curve of performance.

That is, a hydraulic rating is 50% (single pass) from the start. The automotive rating is only valid at its end of life.

 

[iunderpressure]

I run 10,000 mile oil changes with a lot of highway miles. It probably doesn't make much of a difference, but my OCD always gets the best of me.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: iunderpressure
I run 10,000 mile oil changes with a lot of highway miles. It probably doesn't make much of a difference, but my OCD always gets the best of me.


If nothing else, you're getting your money's worth out of the purchase. I too would use a top tier filter for a 10k service. It would naturally assume that a 10k service was sensible. I just say that since too many just think of the mileage figure being something static.

 

[iunderpressure]

Just something I noticed today while changing my wife's oil in a 2010 Toyota Sienna. It uses a cartridge style filter. after I used the drain tool and took off the housing that holds the filter, I noticed dirt or some type of stuff in the bottom of the housing next to the drain valve. The van has 20,277 miles on it. It just made me thing of this thread about the dome end bypass valve letting stuff bypass the filter. I was just shocked to see the stuff I did.

I had Redline 5w30 and a Toyota TRD filter in the van.