Most any 0w20's flow the best, I believe TGMO 0w20 had the best flow per my understanding. Regardless it wont make any difference at 26 F.. that is still warm. I think the 0w20 comes in handy is when its -20 to celsius or colder. But if you are that concerned about start up wear, the best option is using the 5w20 and installing a block heater.. i was surprised at how easy it was to install in my car.. just installed one this year.. 50$ and just plugs into the block.. i didnt have to drain any coolant.
Best cold flowing oil for winter temps?
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Originally Posted By: Artem
Goodness gracious some of you took this WAY too serious.
Yea I live in FL but I also do a little thing called TRAVEL, especially up north to visit the parents and work related. Was in Harrisonburg VA the other day and it was 26F in the morning and it isn't winter YET. Just planning ahead.
I asked a simple question regarding what oil flows best, REGARDLESS of what my location is. Perhaps the answers will help fellow BITOG-ers who live in way colder places who might have the same question. Geez. No need to go off on me. All info on this topic is old. It's technically 2017 and maybe there's some new info about which oil brand and viscosity simply flows better then others in "cooler" weather.
Who cares if the engine will be fine with 20w50 in the sump, that's not the point.
If it's in its pumpable temperature range, it "flows" to the parts that need it at the same rate...i.e. at home (which is the only location listed in your OP), anything 0W to 25W will "flow" to the remote points in the engine at the same rate.
However, now that you mention some way into the thread travelling to other places that are sub freezing, exactly the same applies.
Know where you are going, and pick a W rating that's pumpable and forget about it. Or pick a 0W whatever and not worry where-ever you may travel to.
Goodness gracious some of you took this WAY too serious.
Yea I live in FL but I also do a little thing called TRAVEL, especially up north to visit the parents and work related. Was in Harrisonburg VA the other day and it was 26F in the morning and it isn't winter YET. Just planning ahead.
I asked a simple question regarding what oil flows best, REGARDLESS of what my location is. Perhaps the answers will help fellow BITOG-ers who live in way colder places who might have the same question. Geez. No need to go off on me. All info on this topic is old. It's technically 2017 and maybe there's some new info about which oil brand and viscosity simply flows better then others in "cooler" weather.
Who cares if the engine will be fine with 20w50 in the sump, that's not the point.
If it's in its pumpable temperature range, it "flows" to the parts that need it at the same rate...i.e. at home (which is the only location listed in your OP), anything 0W to 25W will "flow" to the remote points in the engine at the same rate.
However, now that you mention some way into the thread travelling to other places that are sub freezing, exactly the same applies.
Know where you are going, and pick a W rating that's pumpable and forget about it. Or pick a 0W whatever and not worry where-ever you may travel to.
I'm using 5w30 this winter in my daily driver. That's easily good down to -10 def F. Virginia is in the "warm" half of the country as far I'm concerned. Any winter trips planned above the 39th parallel? But, I think you're good on trips up to the 49th parallel.
I use 5w-20 in the upper Midwest and have been fine down to -20 to -30F. A good syn makes a difference though at those temps (pour point around -45F, -55F for a 0W). I didnt think florida had winters, that is why all of the retired people from up here go down there for our winter months.
Unless you are driving at least 2000 miles north, stick with the cheapest oil in your grade (5w20).
You do have an awful lot of posts to not be able to answer your own question though.
You do have an awful lot of posts to not be able to answer your own question though.
Originally Posted By: Garak
It's not going to make the slightest measurable difference in your climate. Most off the shelf 20 grades will have similar HTHS, and you're not going to approach the limits of a monograde there, much less a 5w-XX versus a 0w-XX. Choose by price. Personally, if it were me, I'd go for the 0w-20 if using a synthetic, simply because I'd be spending the same money and getting the advantage of a 0w-XX. But, that being said, I would be able to realize the advantage of a 0w-XX. In your case, you might get a tiny, immeasurable fuel economy improvement, so call it on that, if you like.
Good answer
It's not going to make the slightest measurable difference in your climate. Most off the shelf 20 grades will have similar HTHS, and you're not going to approach the limits of a monograde there, much less a 5w-XX versus a 0w-XX. Choose by price. Personally, if it were me, I'd go for the 0w-20 if using a synthetic, simply because I'd be spending the same money and getting the advantage of a 0w-XX. But, that being said, I would be able to realize the advantage of a 0w-XX. In your case, you might get a tiny, immeasurable fuel economy improvement, so call it on that, if you like.
gathermewool
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Originally Posted By: jayg
Unless you are driving at least 2000 miles north, stick with the cheapest oil in your grade (5w20).
You do have an awful lot of posts to not be able to answer your own question though.
Apparently, you couldn't understand a simple question, let alone answer it. Your reply is absolutely worthless, as are about 80% of those in this thread so far (mine now included).
Unless you are driving at least 2000 miles north, stick with the cheapest oil in your grade (5w20).
You do have an awful lot of posts to not be able to answer your own question though.
Apparently, you couldn't understand a simple question, let alone answer it. Your reply is absolutely worthless, as are about 80% of those in this thread so far (mine now included).
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
All but a very few (handful) of engines have positive displacement oil pumps. As long as the oil reaches the pump intake (no screen clogging) they will push any liquid the same distance in the same amount of time.
That's not entirely true, or at least the more viscous oil doesn't necessarily flow in the same pattern through the engine, as demonstrated by skipping to 5:00 and following in this video. Same exact engine (with the same exact oil pump) started at -34C with different oil grades with the valve cover off and watching flow from the cam tower squirters...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII
Ignore the salesman voice-over about "metal-to-metal contact!!!" but the difference in actual oil flow is obvious. The pump may be displacing the same amount of oil per turn, or it may not. The thicker oil may be causing the pump to cavitate. Or it may be causing the pressure relief valve to lift rather than pushing the thicker oil to the last cam bearing in the system.
Of course as others have pointed out... this is not an issue that will EVER happen in Florida. At least not in this geological epoch...
All but a very few (handful) of engines have positive displacement oil pumps. As long as the oil reaches the pump intake (no screen clogging) they will push any liquid the same distance in the same amount of time.
That's not entirely true, or at least the more viscous oil doesn't necessarily flow in the same pattern through the engine, as demonstrated by skipping to 5:00 and following in this video. Same exact engine (with the same exact oil pump) started at -34C with different oil grades with the valve cover off and watching flow from the cam tower squirters...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII
Ignore the salesman voice-over about "metal-to-metal contact!!!" but the difference in actual oil flow is obvious. The pump may be displacing the same amount of oil per turn, or it may not. The thicker oil may be causing the pump to cavitate. Or it may be causing the pressure relief valve to lift rather than pushing the thicker oil to the last cam bearing in the system.
Of course as others have pointed out... this is not an issue that will EVER happen in Florida. At least not in this geological epoch...
Originally Posted By: Artem
Goodness gracious some of you took this WAY too serious.
Yea I live in FL but I also do a little thing called TRAVEL, especially up north to visit the parents and work related. Was in Harrisonburg VA the other day and it was 26F in the morning and it isn't winter YET. Just planning ahead.
I asked a simple question regarding what oil flows best, REGARDLESS of what my location is.
I think you're missing a key point here. There's a "knee in the curve" above which things don't matter, and below which they do. 10w30, 5w30, and 0w30 all behave pretty similarly above 0F. The differences only start really showing up WAY below temperatures that occur anywhere in the continental US except the states that border Canada. Yes, to you and me 26F or 10F seems extremely different than 60F, but far as the behavior of a 5w30 vs a 0w30 goes, its really not that different. In both cases, all 3 oils are very far above their pour point and will behave about the same on cold startup. On the other hand, -40C (which happens to equal -40F, by the way ;-) ) is a very different thing indeed, because the 10w30 and 5w30 will be below their pour points, and the 0w30 will still be above its pour point.
Goodness gracious some of you took this WAY too serious.
Yea I live in FL but I also do a little thing called TRAVEL, especially up north to visit the parents and work related. Was in Harrisonburg VA the other day and it was 26F in the morning and it isn't winter YET. Just planning ahead.
I asked a simple question regarding what oil flows best, REGARDLESS of what my location is.
I think you're missing a key point here. There's a "knee in the curve" above which things don't matter, and below which they do. 10w30, 5w30, and 0w30 all behave pretty similarly above 0F. The differences only start really showing up WAY below temperatures that occur anywhere in the continental US except the states that border Canada. Yes, to you and me 26F or 10F seems extremely different than 60F, but far as the behavior of a 5w30 vs a 0w30 goes, its really not that different. In both cases, all 3 oils are very far above their pour point and will behave about the same on cold startup. On the other hand, -40C (which happens to equal -40F, by the way ;-) ) is a very different thing indeed, because the 10w30 and 5w30 will be below their pour points, and the 0w30 will still be above its pour point.
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: jayg
Unless you are driving at least 2000 miles north, stick with the cheapest oil in your grade (5w20).
You do have an awful lot of posts to not be able to answer your own question though.
Apparently, you couldn't understand a simple question, let alone answer it. Your reply is absolutely worthless, as are about 80% of those in this thread so far (mine now included).
Nope, 4000 posts and he could hit the search function and find flow characteristics of 0w20 oils.
None of which he needs to know about unless he drives that car about 15-20 degrees latitude north and even then, probably not.
Oh but he might go to Virginia sometimes.... that's right, the Arctic Circle. Yep, throw in the best 0w20 money can buy.
The thread is ridiculous because he will never be anywhere the answer will matter to him.
Originally Posted By: jayg
Unless you are driving at least 2000 miles north, stick with the cheapest oil in your grade (5w20).
You do have an awful lot of posts to not be able to answer your own question though.
Apparently, you couldn't understand a simple question, let alone answer it. Your reply is absolutely worthless, as are about 80% of those in this thread so far (mine now included).
Nope, 4000 posts and he could hit the search function and find flow characteristics of 0w20 oils.
None of which he needs to know about unless he drives that car about 15-20 degrees latitude north and even then, probably not.
Oh but he might go to Virginia sometimes.... that's right, the Arctic Circle. Yep, throw in the best 0w20 money can buy.
The thread is ridiculous because he will never be anywhere the answer will matter to him.
Mazda calls for 0w20 for the sky active 2.0 that year if recall.
Even at a synthetic 5w20 you won't gain any benefit in your climate by splitting hairs.
I run conventional 5w20 and I live in Alberta.
Modern oils pump quite well....and especially a synthetic in Florida....overkill.
Sleep easy with whatever you chose, but your energy is better spent elsewhere at your Temps.
For what it's worth the pump ability numbers are more important than pour point and youtube demos.
I'd bet mobil 1 would be one of better colD performers or Amsoil is usually quite good as well.
If I were you I would continue to run castrol if it's already in there. Great numbers. It's also what we run in my wife's 2.0 sky active.
Ryan
Even at a synthetic 5w20 you won't gain any benefit in your climate by splitting hairs.
I run conventional 5w20 and I live in Alberta.
Modern oils pump quite well....and especially a synthetic in Florida....overkill.
Sleep easy with whatever you chose, but your energy is better spent elsewhere at your Temps.
For what it's worth the pump ability numbers are more important than pour point and youtube demos.
I'd bet mobil 1 would be one of better colD performers or Amsoil is usually quite good as well.
If I were you I would continue to run castrol if it's already in there. Great numbers. It's also what we run in my wife's 2.0 sky active.
Ryan
Florida winters are like springtime up here. Stick with the 5w20 and don't stress it.
Last edited:
Uh, worried about cold flow in Florida?
Originally Posted By: Garak
It's not going to make the slightest measurable difference in your climate. Most off the shelf 20 grades will have similar HTHS, and you're not going to approach the limits of a monograde there, much less a 5w-XX versus a 0w-XX. Choose by price. Personally, if it were me, I'd go for the 0w-20 if using a synthetic, simply because I'd be spending the same money and getting the advantage of a 0w-XX. But, that being said, I would be able to realize the advantage of a 0w-XX. In your case, you might get a tiny, immeasurable fuel economy improvement, so call it on that, if you like.
+1
Originally Posted By: Garak
It's not going to make the slightest measurable difference in your climate. Most off the shelf 20 grades will have similar HTHS, and you're not going to approach the limits of a monograde there, much less a 5w-XX versus a 0w-XX. Choose by price. Personally, if it were me, I'd go for the 0w-20 if using a synthetic, simply because I'd be spending the same money and getting the advantage of a 0w-XX. But, that being said, I would be able to realize the advantage of a 0w-XX. In your case, you might get a tiny, immeasurable fuel economy improvement, so call it on that, if you like.
+1
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
That's not entirely true, or at least the more viscous oil doesn't necessarily flow in the same pattern through the engine, as demonstrated by skipping to 5:00 and following in this video. Same exact engine (with the same exact oil pump) started at -34C with different oil grades with the valve cover off and watching flow from the cam tower squirters...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII
Ignore the salesman voice-over about "metal-to-metal contact!!!" but the difference in actual oil flow is obvious. The pump may be displacing the same amount of oil per turn, or it may not. The thicker oil may be causing the pump to cavitate. Or it may be causing the pressure relief valve to lift rather than pushing the thicker oil to the last cam bearing in the system.
Of course as others have pointed out... this is not an issue that will EVER happen in Florida. At least not in this geological epoch...
You have to understand that in that Esso video they took two oils, one that was within it's pumpability rating for the test temperature, which I believe was a 0W (-31F rating) and the other was not, which I think was 10W (-13F rating). This is very deceiving to people that do not understand how the W rating is obtained or what it really means.
What this video clearly shows though is that the W ratings are important and should be used according to the outside temperatures the vehicles are operated in, otherwise the oil will be very difficult to pump and hence take longer to reach various components, as demonstrated in the video. However if they only picked a 5W rated oil (-22F) for their test, which coincidently was also done at -22F, there would be virtually no difference in flow because both oils would've been within their pumpability limits.
Pumpability and thickness are two different aspects in positive displacement pump oil systems.
What this video also shows is that oils that are outside their W rating temp. will still provide adequate protection and there is no "dry" start. So they are perfectly fine for an occasional very cold start, but as the video suggests, for vehicles regularly operating in very cold climates, a properly rated oil is the best.
Here are the W rating temperature limits:
0W -35C (-31F)
5W -30C (-22F)
10W -25C (-13F)
That's not entirely true, or at least the more viscous oil doesn't necessarily flow in the same pattern through the engine, as demonstrated by skipping to 5:00 and following in this video. Same exact engine (with the same exact oil pump) started at -34C with different oil grades with the valve cover off and watching flow from the cam tower squirters...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII
Ignore the salesman voice-over about "metal-to-metal contact!!!" but the difference in actual oil flow is obvious. The pump may be displacing the same amount of oil per turn, or it may not. The thicker oil may be causing the pump to cavitate. Or it may be causing the pressure relief valve to lift rather than pushing the thicker oil to the last cam bearing in the system.
Of course as others have pointed out... this is not an issue that will EVER happen in Florida. At least not in this geological epoch...
You have to understand that in that Esso video they took two oils, one that was within it's pumpability rating for the test temperature, which I believe was a 0W (-31F rating) and the other was not, which I think was 10W (-13F rating). This is very deceiving to people that do not understand how the W rating is obtained or what it really means.
What this video clearly shows though is that the W ratings are important and should be used according to the outside temperatures the vehicles are operated in, otherwise the oil will be very difficult to pump and hence take longer to reach various components, as demonstrated in the video. However if they only picked a 5W rated oil (-22F) for their test, which coincidently was also done at -22F, there would be virtually no difference in flow because both oils would've been within their pumpability limits.
Pumpability and thickness are two different aspects in positive displacement pump oil systems.
What this video also shows is that oils that are outside their W rating temp. will still provide adequate protection and there is no "dry" start. So they are perfectly fine for an occasional very cold start, but as the video suggests, for vehicles regularly operating in very cold climates, a properly rated oil is the best.
Here are the W rating temperature limits:
0W -35C (-31F)
5W -30C (-22F)
10W -25C (-13F)
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Any of the recommended oils will pump freely at much colder temps than you are able to go out and drive in, especially in Florida, you've probably never even had a frosty windscreen in the morning
I lived in Orlando for one winter back in 1977-1978. Was able to play golf every weekend. While I was surprised that temps sometimes got down into the 30's, and occasionally near 32 deg F, it was quite pleasant. I was driving my 1974 Dodge Dart 6 cyl at the time....running on 10w-40 motor oil. Somehow, I survived that Orlando winter and then got to head back to Connecticut....still using the same 10w-40 in the car. My Dart was a bit slow to start on some days, but it always did on the 10w-40 even in winters....even after sitting outside for 4 months in the deployed parking lot.
Any of the recommended oils will pump freely at much colder temps than you are able to go out and drive in, especially in Florida, you've probably never even had a frosty windscreen in the morning
I lived in Orlando for one winter back in 1977-1978. Was able to play golf every weekend. While I was surprised that temps sometimes got down into the 30's, and occasionally near 32 deg F, it was quite pleasant. I was driving my 1974 Dodge Dart 6 cyl at the time....running on 10w-40 motor oil. Somehow, I survived that Orlando winter and then got to head back to Connecticut....still using the same 10w-40 in the car. My Dart was a bit slow to start on some days, but it always did on the 10w-40 even in winters....even after sitting outside for 4 months in the deployed parking lot.
It's 26F right now in this neck of the woods. My Q50 started with no problems. No block heater and no 0W oil required either.
If OP is travelling as far north as VA, where temperatures are no where near what folks in North Dakota would see, then yes, he is overthinking this way too much.
If OP is travelling as far north as VA, where temperatures are no where near what folks in North Dakota would see, then yes, he is overthinking this way too much.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
That's not entirely true, or at least the more viscous oil doesn't necessarily flow in the same pattern through the engine, as demonstrated by skipping to 5:00 and following in this video. Same exact engine (with the same exact oil pump) started at -34C with different oil grades with the valve cover off and watching flow from the cam tower squirters...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII
Ignore the salesman voice-over about "metal-to-metal contact!!!" but the difference in actual oil flow is obvious. The pump may be displacing the same amount of oil per turn, or it may not. The thicker oil may be causing the pump to cavitate. Or it may be causing the pressure relief valve to lift rather than pushing the thicker oil to the last cam bearing in the system.
Of course as others have pointed out... this is not an issue that will EVER happen in Florida. At least not in this geological epoch...
You have to understand that in that Esso video they took two oils, one that was within it's pumpability rating for the test temperature, which I believe was a 0W (-31F rating) and the other was not, which I think was 10W (-13F rating). This is very deceiving to people that do not understand how the W rating is obtained or what it really means.
I agree, and if you read my follow-up to the OP (the "knee in the curve" post) I specifically made the point that its only significant when an oil is approaching its pour point.
That said, the real reason I posted that link was to debunk the oft-repeated error, "its a positive displacement pump, all oils will flow the same." Which would be true if a) cavitation couldn't happen within the pump itself when the oil is very thick, and b) if pumps weren't followed by relief valves, which means that the combination of pump and valve is no longer "constant volume" but instead becomes something closer to constant pressure once the valve cracks open. And the valve will crack sooner when the oil is very thick.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
That's not entirely true, or at least the more viscous oil doesn't necessarily flow in the same pattern through the engine, as demonstrated by skipping to 5:00 and following in this video. Same exact engine (with the same exact oil pump) started at -34C with different oil grades with the valve cover off and watching flow from the cam tower squirters...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII
Ignore the salesman voice-over about "metal-to-metal contact!!!" but the difference in actual oil flow is obvious. The pump may be displacing the same amount of oil per turn, or it may not. The thicker oil may be causing the pump to cavitate. Or it may be causing the pressure relief valve to lift rather than pushing the thicker oil to the last cam bearing in the system.
Of course as others have pointed out... this is not an issue that will EVER happen in Florida. At least not in this geological epoch...
You have to understand that in that Esso video they took two oils, one that was within it's pumpability rating for the test temperature, which I believe was a 0W (-31F rating) and the other was not, which I think was 10W (-13F rating). This is very deceiving to people that do not understand how the W rating is obtained or what it really means.
I agree, and if you read my follow-up to the OP (the "knee in the curve" post) I specifically made the point that its only significant when an oil is approaching its pour point.
That said, the real reason I posted that link was to debunk the oft-repeated error, "its a positive displacement pump, all oils will flow the same." Which would be true if a) cavitation couldn't happen within the pump itself when the oil is very thick, and b) if pumps weren't followed by relief valves, which means that the combination of pump and valve is no longer "constant volume" but instead becomes something closer to constant pressure once the valve cracks open. And the valve will crack sooner when the oil is very thick.
Originally Posted By: sir1900
It's 26F right now in this neck of the woods.
That's pretty toasty. -6F with -35 wind chills here for 99676.
It's 26F right now in this neck of the woods.
That's pretty toasty. -6F with -35 wind chills here for 99676.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
That said, the real reason I posted that link was to debunk the oft-repeated error, "its a positive displacement pump, all oils will flow the same." Which would be true if a) cavitation couldn't happen within the pump itself when the oil is very thick, and b) if pumps weren't followed by relief valves, which means that the combination of pump and valve is no longer "constant volume" but instead becomes something closer to constant pressure once the valve cracks open. And the valve will crack sooner when the oil is very thick.
True, but the "positive displacement" argument is usually used in response to the "0W flows more at every temperature" argument that keeps getting repeated. In those circumstances, the pump is moving pumpable oil, and displacing air, and the variance in delivery time to the remote point is moot...just not there, regardles of posits and feels (from the proponents, not you).
I agree, once the galleries are full, the thicker oil will have higher relief flows...but the oil is there, where it needs to be and doing it's full job, again counter to the "0W flows better at every temperature". The engine just simpky doesn't need a full pump's worth of oil at that point, backpressure rises, and it goes into relief.
The Esso video while demonstrative, draws the wrong conclusion regarding pumpability in most minds...but it was targeted at -40.
That said, the real reason I posted that link was to debunk the oft-repeated error, "its a positive displacement pump, all oils will flow the same." Which would be true if a) cavitation couldn't happen within the pump itself when the oil is very thick, and b) if pumps weren't followed by relief valves, which means that the combination of pump and valve is no longer "constant volume" but instead becomes something closer to constant pressure once the valve cracks open. And the valve will crack sooner when the oil is very thick.
True, but the "positive displacement" argument is usually used in response to the "0W flows more at every temperature" argument that keeps getting repeated. In those circumstances, the pump is moving pumpable oil, and displacing air, and the variance in delivery time to the remote point is moot...just not there, regardles of posits and feels (from the proponents, not you).
I agree, once the galleries are full, the thicker oil will have higher relief flows...but the oil is there, where it needs to be and doing it's full job, again counter to the "0W flows better at every temperature". The engine just simpky doesn't need a full pump's worth of oil at that point, backpressure rises, and it goes into relief.
The Esso video while demonstrative, draws the wrong conclusion regarding pumpability in most minds...but it was targeted at -40.
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