Benefit to changing factory fill early?

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
I wouldn't think of ever driving past 1,000 miles on a FF. But that's just me. I have built a few engines in my life and have gone to the extent of dumping it at 200, 500 and again at 1,000 miles. I have drained said oil into a clean pan and witnessed the metal particles in the pan.


An engine that has been assembled in someone's garage or shop is a little different than a factory built engine which is going to have a lot cleaner build process. I would most definitely change the oil super early (100 to 200 miles) on an engine rebuild but would have no problem waiting a few thousand on a new factory built one.

 

[LotI]

I have changed early on my new vehicles. It is called out in the manual of my Ducati, Honda motorcycle and mower...two of those have full-pressure systems with filters. Considering the glitter that was in the mower drain oil after 1hr, I changed it again after another 2.

You're not really doing any harm, IMO.

 

[threeputtpar]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Here we go...

Yep, I think I'm going to go ahead and change the FF in the new Honda this weekend as it will have 400 miles on it by then, just to get everyone's panties in a wad here.

Maybe I'll even spluge on a used oil analysis and filter autopsy just to cover all the bases.








OK, not really. I'm actually going to run it to the 15% MM like the manual says and probably have the dealer service it if they don't charge too much.

 

[Durango]

Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
I recently bought a 2013 Buick Enclave and I was planning to change the factory fill out early, at 50% OLM. I now hit that at 4,000 miles and I am wondering if it is that big of a deal.

DEXOS is almost synthetic (I will change to Pennzoil Platinum) and with engines not needing much (if any) break in these days, and since factory doesn't require it, is it really a benefit?


Corvette Owner,

Since you Buick is new I'd not do anything until my OLM tells me to do so unless your dealership backs you up. Some dealershipps are very picky if you have any engine issues and then they realize the oil was changed. If they endorse it then go ahead cuz it's your car.

This year recently I too bought a new Chevy Camaro and with about 600 miles on it so far I intend to go by my OLM and change out the oil when indicated.

Durango

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: CaspianM
It is not just metal particles, new engine is hard on oil and fuel in gas and oil shearing. If you have been changing your own oil you probably have witnessed the watery metallic looking oil out of crankcase. Empty the pan and you will see the metallic mess in there.

While I don't see any car manufacturer say early change (cause people hate to change oil early) directly, practically all motorcycle requires/recommend that. Early change is not 50% or 3000 miles, it is 600~1200 miles and increasing it slowly.
I have always done early (using dino) a few times then normal routine and it works.

The difference is that motorcycles often lubricate the engine and gearbox with the same oil, and gears will shed far more wear metal during break in than an engine will.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
See, that's the issue here. The mfgr publishes an incredibly complete maintenance schedule in the manual. Following it correctly generally gives most folks the best bang for their buck especially in the long haul.


I was glancing at my manual the other day and it has MANY inspections over the miles. The only one that gets me is that it calls for 7500 OCI under "normal" conditions. If "severe" use then 3000 or 3 months with the full alphabet of what determines severe. Basically I interpret that as "if you start the car and drive it (at least in the northeast), EVERYTHING is severe (unless I drive over 100mph!

) ".

List from manual:

ENGINE OIL AND FILTER R EVERY 3,000 MILES (4,800 KM) OR 3 MONTHS A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, K

A - Repeatedly driving short distance of less than 5miles (8km) in normal
temperature or less than 10miles (16km) in freezing temperature
B - Extensive engine idling or low speed driving for long distances
C - Driving on rough, dusty, muddy, unpaved, graveled or salt- spread roads
D - Driving in areas using salt or other corrosive materials or in very cold weather
E - Driving in sandy areas
F - Driving in heavy traffic area over 90°F (32°C)
G - Driving on uphill, downhill, or mountain road
H - Towing a Trailer, or using a camper, or roof rack
I - Driving as a patrol car, taxi, other commercial use or vehicle towing
J - Driving over 100 MPH (170 Km/h)
K - Frequently driving in stop-and-go conditions

My boss just bought a new Silverado. Dealer called him after 1 month asking why he hasn't brought it back for the 1000 mile service/checkup. He told them he lives 4 miles from work and has less than 300 miles so far. They said he should it bring it anyway since it's now 1 month.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^I would think the stealer has a completely different list of procedures. Mine does.

If you do it their way you will spend a ton of extra cash not needed for long vehicle life.

And if many would read their manual they'd find out they, too, qualify for the severe service schedule!

 

[Sequoiasoon]

The last time I was at the dealer, their "recommended" list was basically the severe service schedule and many other services to help keep the transfer of money out of my wallet flowing smoothly. Basically if the factory manual had any fluid that said inspect, they recommend changing "to help insure proper operation and maintain factory warranty" (which I'm past now).

My local Hyundai dealer had parts at almost double the cost of a dealer 15 minutes away and didn't care when I showed him the paperwork from other dealer. His attitude was "that's our price, if you don't like it go there" so I did. His recommended service list was more extensive and expensive also.

 

[ammolab]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: CaspianM
It is not just metal particles, new engine is hard on oil and fuel in gas and oil shearing. If you have been changing your own oil you probably have witnessed the watery metallic looking oil out of crankcase. Empty the pan and you will see the metallic mess in there.

While I don't see any car manufacturer say early change (cause people hate to change oil early) directly, practically all motorcycle requires/recommend that. Early change is not 50% or 3000 miles, it is 600~1200 miles and increasing it slowly.
I have always done early (using dino) a few times then normal routine and it works.

The difference is that motorcycles often lubricate the engine and gearbox with the same oil, and gears will shed far more wear metal during break in than an engine will.


BMW motorcycles (separate gearbox) require an oil change at 600 miles and their M cars get one at 1200 or so.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Sequoiasoon
The last time I was at the dealer, their "recommended" list was basically the severe service schedule and many other services to help keep the transfer of money out of my wallet flowing smoothly. Basically if the factory manual had any fluid that said inspect, they recommend changing "to help insure proper operation and maintain factory warranty" (which I'm past now).

My local Hyundai dealer had parts at almost double the cost of a dealer 15 minutes away and didn't care when I showed him the paperwork from other dealer. His attitude was "that's our price, if you don't like it go there" so I did. His recommended service list was more extensive and expensive also.


My MIL took her 350z in to the Nissan stealership back in 06 when it was new and was handed a laundry list of services when the manual called for an oil change and inspections! They wanted about 400 bucks! It's crazy and they prey on the uninformed.

I also know that the manual is the Bible when it comes to warranty claims.

 

[HyundaiGuy]

I asked someone at Royal Purple the same question when we bought our Fiats (our first new cars in over a decade, we had been purchasing used.)

His answer made sense. We paid for the factory oil in the price of the cars. Do not change early. He said "technically" there may be a reason to change, but in the real world there is no statistically verifiable proof to any benefit of doing so.

 

[dla]

I just changed mine out at 3,000 based on feedback from an Enclave forum. You'll notice that when you change it the vehicle has the smaller PF 48 filter on it from the factory with a red sticker on top of what would be the PF 48 sticker that states "replace with PF 63".

The PF 63 is longer than the PF 48 and has a slightly higher by pass valve rating.

There is a lot of speculation as to why that is being done but no clear answers.

 

[Camprunner]

At one time I belived in the early change out until I purchased my "06" Toyota 4Runner and just did not have time to do an early change so I left it in for 6K miles. I now have over 160,000 and it runs great. So I did the same on my wifes "08" Toyota Camery and she has 200,000+ now so I dont think it matters.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Sequoiasoon
The last time I was at the dealer, their "recommended" list was basically the severe service schedule and many other services to help keep the transfer of money out of my wallet flowing smoothly. Basically if the factory manual had any fluid that said inspect, they recommend changing "to help insure proper operation and maintain factory warranty" (which I'm past now).

My local Hyundai dealer had parts at almost double the cost of a dealer 15 minutes away and didn't care when I showed him the paperwork from other dealer. His attitude was "that's our price, if you don't like it go there" so I did. His recommended service list was more extensive and expensive also.

According to local Ford place. Florida is severe service. And, OLM in new Fords is for decorations. Your money, they want it.

 

[JOD]

If there's a factory fill that would benefit from being changed early, it's probably the transmission fluid more than the engine oil. Most of the contaminants which appear during the life of the transmission occur during initial break-in, and the filtration isn't nearly as good as in the engine. Plus, transmission failures down the road seem WAY more frequent than engine failures. If I had a new car and was looking to over-maintain it, I'd start there and with the PS fluid instead of the engine oil.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: dla
I just changed mine out at 3,000 based on feedback from an Enclave forum. You'll notice that when you change it the vehicle has the smaller PF 48 filter on it from the factory with a red sticker on top of what would be the PF 48 sticker that states "replace with PF 63".

The PF 63 is longer than the PF 48 and has a slightly higher by pass valve rating.

There is a lot of speculation as to why that is being done but no clear answers.

I find that many cars leave the factory with a different filter than what the dealership uses. I would see OEM filters often because of rental fleet vehicles.

Some versions of the Ford Focus had a spin on filter that was made in the U.K. and had no Ford or Motorcraft emblems. The OE replacement looked like every other Motorcraft filter and was made in the USA.

 

[nthach]

FWIW, some OEMs like Honda say to leave the factory fill in until the first OCI. Some like Subaru say to perform the first change at 3750 miles. Others are mum. On my parent's 2009 Prius I did the first OCI at 1000 miles with bulk Quaker State at my old job. Nearly 90,000 miles later I have not seen any oil consumption yet.

As for OEM filters, I've seen Mahle and Tennex as OEM on Hondas only to replaced by the service-spec Fram one. On my parent's car, it was a Japanese Denso that I replaced with a Thai one. And a friend's Forester had a Toyo Roki on, it was replaced by a Fram.

 

[TomB985]

I have to say this thread has renewed my faith in the human race. I don't spent a huge amount of time on BITOG, but I fully expected everyone to jump on the "Change it NOW" bandwagon.

6,000 miles on my factory fill and still going!

 

[bigt61]

My sons 2013 Dodge Dart went 9400 miles on the FF. The oil seemed fine and it didn't use any. We just went by the OLM and will continue to do so.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
I wouldn't think of ever driving past 1,000 miles on a FF. But that's just me. I have built a few engines in my life and have gone to the extent of dumping it at 200, 500 and again at 1,000 miles. I have drained said oil into a clean pan and witnessed the metal particles in the pan.


An engine that has been assembled in someone's garage or shop is a little different than a factory built engine which is going to have a lot cleaner build process. I would most definitely change the oil super early (100 to 200 miles) on an engine rebuild but would have no problem waiting a few thousand on a new factory built one.


Especially when those quality minded UAW workers are behind the assembly process. Yes, sarcasm intended. Having hauled direct to auto plants for several decades and seen first hand what goes on in there doesn't raise my comfort level over a good shop down the street doing an engine build.