changing honda factory fill

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
ARCOgraphite – Sadly you have not produced data to quantify your comments - especially as to what “LOT” means in context!

Keeping the FF in as prescribed by the Manufacturer is actually a wise move for about 99% of new car buyers! The 1% may consist of some experts here on BITOG!!
The FF OCI decision is based on extensive Engineering knowledge of the metallurgy used, testing and finally what is deemed to be needed to ensure that for instance piston scuffing, bore glazing and etc are avoided or moderated!

The same FF scenario can be said for many engine makers too such as MB and Porsche

AS CATERHAM has alluded to their will be a "level" of higher component wear during the early stages of an engiens life. It is quite often evident in the Pb and Cu levels

A quick reference to my extensive database and its trended UOA results follow and show (ppm except PQ):

Engine 1 - Mercedes Benz based 3ltr, 5 cyl, turbo diesel - light truck

At 5kkms (3k miles)
Fe - 25
Cr - 1
Cu - 26
Pb - 8
PQ -
This engine was consistent throughout its lifetime (50kkms (30k miles) with me!

Engine 2 - Detroit Diesel Series 60 12.7ltr 500hp
This engine was put to hard (42000kg) high speed Interstate work with 3hrs on it

At 14k, 31k (45k), 23k (68k), 28k (378k), 22k (1.02m) oil use at UOA, total engine distance in brackets - all kms
Fe - 54, 60, 51, 34, 58
Cr - 6, 5, 5, 3, 6
Cu - 147, 54, 11, 3, 18
Pb - 1, 5, 3, 7, 35
PQ - All below 3

At 35k (263k) 86k (925k), 116k (955k) these were some “exception” UOA results
Fe - 138, 129, 150
Cr - 6, 5, 6
Cu - 38, 9, 10
Pb - 8, 125, 150
PQ - Both below 3

Note the Cu & Pb levels!

Engine 2’s Manufacturer’s lubricant condemnation limits are:
Fe - 150
Cu - 30
Pb - 30

Engine 2 was disassembled and inspected at 1.2m kms (745k miles)
After the measure up all parts were judged by DD to be suitable for reuse

The early life UOA results are quite typical over many engine families

IMHO for most people purchasing a new car today it is best to follow the Manufacturers directions as to lubricant choice and OCIs

Electrolover - If there was a significant widening of ring gaps at 5k miles I shudder to think what the distance might be to the first rebuild!

 

[zanzabar]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Still, I suppose I should define " ... a lot!" as: ~3x a bedded engine wear rate (just a guess as I haven't performed the calculus).


Why does everyone have to get all upset about this stuff? We have plenty of data here. 3x bedded engine wear rate seems about right, but on a new honda that still ain't amounting to a whole lot.

At least two analyses in this thread on Honda Fit factory fills show wear rates for iron, tin, and aluminum at 15-30 over 10k miles on factory fill oil. I'd estimate that's about 3x the bedded wear rate, or thereabouts.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1721405/

So guess what...you're both right! 3x the wear rate, of a very small wear rate is in fact a very small amount of wear!

 

[Scuderia]

Originally Posted By: nfs480
Originally Posted By: Scuderia
The MM doesn't count miles, it counts volume of air that has passed through the MAF.


Not true at all. The following is a quote from a Honda Chief Engineer Gary Flint who worked on the Honda Ridgeline from an interview with the Ridgeline Owners Club:

Quote:
ROC: What factors does the Oil Life Monitor use?

Gary Flint: The oil life monitoring system uses a complex series of calculations based on engine revolutions, time, and temperature to calculate service intervals. The associated other service requirements are estimated based on oil change intervals to organize the service requirements for tire rotation, transmission oil changes, etc. Under normal use, there is no need to service the vehicle more frequently than recommended by the smart maintenance system. If you are towing a heavy trailer, the system does not compensate for the transmission or rear differential service interval. You should consult the maintenance guide supplied with the vehicle and adjust the oil change frequency of the transmission and rear differential accordingly.


Link to interview:here


The reason I said it counts volume of air is because if you use the Hondata Flash Pro tunning computer (Civic Si), and set it for "MAP" tune, it disables the MAF and relies on the MAP sensor for the A/F ratio mixture. That's great for performance, but it causes the MM to always display 100% oil life. However if you use a "MAF" tune, the MM works just fine.