Belichick to coach UNC

[edyvw]

He's not even top 5 highest paid in NCAAF.

Oh, I know that.

 

[edyvw]

Okay point taken but the football program at UNC is likely cash positive. The current athletic fee at UNC Chapel Hill is $300/semester or year (can't remember). The fee would almost be zero if Title IX didn't exist. The fee is $0 for students at Alabama (2018).

The problem is not whether the program is cash-positive or not. The problem is that it drives the cost for the average student from NC. Nick Saban was obviously, without any doubt, very good for Alabama's football program and overall athletic program. He was very good for Alabama's image, hence, 68%, 68% of students are out of state! That is a very, very good thing when it comes to the overall budget. However, that absolutely drives cost for in-state students as most of the R1 universities of that statute have some kind of cap on enrolment. That is NOT why Alabama or UNC for that matter, is created. They are created to serve state students first and foremost. They are created to create a workforce that is necessary in the state.
I could go on, and on. When we were initially discussing this, I was ready to go into a budget meeting where we got the news that we will, AGAIN, have to raise tuition for in-state students by 4.5% and OOS by 2.7%. In the meantime, things got so messed up that, well, we fired two janitors. Why? Because, if flagship campuses (let's say Tuscaloosa) has an excessive amounts of money, generally, Presidents of the systems only care about that. UAH, UAB, are left to fight with state re. funding.
UNC might get OOS boost from hiring Belichick. However, the more money they have as a result of TV rights, OOS, etc., the more peril there is for in-state students and other UNC campuses.

 

[edyvw]

University of South Carolina (SEC) athletic fee is zero. Still paying for one there currently. The amount of athletic facilities available to every student is amazing - pools, tracks, etc. All paid for by SEC money. So are things for less popular sports. SEC Football / basketball pays for all the fancy stuff.


South Carolina is 55% out of state for undergrad. A friend of mine from Philly sent both his kids there. When I asked why he said it was still cheaper than home. Clearly we need to raise out of state tuition some more.

Depends what is "home." Penn State? Pitt? Penn? Yeah, probably. Your average state school down the street? No way.

As I mentioned above, the more OOS students, the less space for in-state folks. Universities were left to operate like businesses. After 2008 recession, all states pulled funding and never reinstated. They pushed public universities to fight the fight with for-profit universities, to scavenge money around, to fight for OOS.
The real victim of that is an average kid from down the street for whom that university was created in the first place. Then that kid gets sold on some online BS university that will rip him/her off, get him/her some paper, and good luck finding a meaningful job.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The problem is not whether the program is cash-positive or not. The problem is that it drives the cost for the average student from NC. Nick Saban was obviously, without any doubt, very good for Alabama's football program and overall athletic program. He was very good for Alabama's image, hence, 68%, 68% of students are out of state! That is a very, very good thing when it comes to the overall budget. However, that absolutely drives cost for in-state students as most of the R1 universities of that statute have some kind of cap on enrolment. That is NOT why Alabama or UNC for that matter, is created. They are created to serve state students first and foremost. They are created to create a workforce that is necessary in the state.
I could go on, and on. When we were initially discussing this, I was ready to go into a budget meeting where we got the news that we will, AGAIN, have to raise tuition for in-state students by 4.5% and OOS by 2.7%. In the meantime, things got so messed up that, well, we fired two janitors. Why? Because, if flagship campuses (let's say Tuscaloosa) has an excessive amounts of money, generally, Presidents of the systems only care about that. UAH, UAB, are left to fight with state re. funding.
UNC might get OOS boost from hiring Belichick. However, the more money they have as a result of TV rights, OOS, etc., the more peril there is for in-state students and other UNC campuses.

I don't doubt that is true. But still most of these OOS students are going into general programs with fairly low cost to service. If you have an engineering program that can take 400 freshman, do you take 400 kids with overall lower scores from in state - or just take the top 400 applicants from wherever? Don't higher numbers of high paying OOS students subsidize in state students anyway?

Overall college enrollment has been dropping since 2010 - in part due to the smaller demographic numbers. Many schools are struggling with budgets and enrollment. However SEC schools for example continue to grow. Enrollment keeps hitting records.

Additionally, I don't think most of these big colleges see their role as educating the public. Most see there role as doing primary research. Education is treated as a side hustle for most professors.

I am not sure what the answer is, but as long as NCAA football remains popular someone is going to monetize it. The fact that small markets like Tuscaloosa and Columbia and Knoxville can take advantage of it I think is OK.

 

[edyvw]

I don't doubt that is true. But still most of these OOS students are going into general programs with fairly low cost to service. If you have an engineering program that can take 400 freshman, do you take 400 kids with overall lower scores from in state - or just take the top 400 applicants from wherever? Don't higher numbers of high paying OOS students subsidize in state students anyway?

The job of a university is to educate and research. I have this discussion every effin day: "o the students are bad," "o they don't work hard." Yes, all true. A few weeks ago, I read a 23-page rough draft paper by a police officer that was written in text language! It was the most depressing night of my teaching career, and I have been doing this job in some capacity since 2008. But, my job is to fix that. Yes, high schools are supposed to do their job, and undergraduates are supposed to do their job, but here she was, in the graduate program. If Alabama does not fix it (and I know students there), who will?

Overall college enrollment has been dropping since 2010 - in part due to the smaller demographic numbers. Many schools are struggling with budgets and enrollment. However SEC schools for example continue to grow. Enrollment keeps hitting records.

So called "demographic cliff" hit now. 2010 was the consequence of numerous factors. We are in the "cliff" now. SEC schools attract students bcs. Saban etc. The problem is they are sucking the life out of smaller brick-and-mortar schools that are key for community development. Public works people, cops, etc. in Montgomery, AL don't go to Tuscaloosa or Auburn, they go to AUM or some similar school. If those schools are struggling (and they are, especially in Alabama last 7-8 years), they cannot offer what the community needs. Then people go to for-profit grifters, and then we have a general problem of who we employ.

Additionally, I don't think most of these big colleges see their role as educating the public. Most see there role as doing primary research. Education is treated as a side hustle for most professors.

Their role is to serve the public. What some professors think is a problem, and many do lose their way to universities instead of think tanks. But overall, the huge majority still serves the public. Very few professors make lucrative careers. They might be financially stable, but hustle? Some, yes. Majority? No. Also, take into consideration that the university will tax the hell out of the additional income that one makes as an expert from XYZ University.

I am not sure what the answer is, but as long as NCAA football remains popular someone is going to monetize it. The fact that small markets like Tuscaloosa and Columbia and Knoxville can take advantage of it I think is OK.

Ah, I don't blame them. State legislatures and governors that are squizing every penny out of education created this mess and the Spellings Commission of 2005.

 

[SC Maintenance]

If Alabama does not fix it (and I know students there), who will?

Basics of education are not the college's job. Its high school. Yes I know - good luck with that. Its not the NCAA's issue really either?

Their role is to serve the public. What some professors think is a problem, and many do lose their way to universities instead of think tanks. But overall, the huge majority still serves the public. Very few professors make lucrative careers. They might be financially stable, but hustle? Some, yes. Majority? No. Also, take into consideration that the university will tax the hell out of the additional income that one makes as an expert from XYZ University.

The associate professors that do most of the teaching make nothing, I agree. The name brand professors that do research attract grant money that the school also wants - so there the same as the football program in the end - its all about money. How does a university tax income?

So called "demographic cliff" hit now. 2010 was the consequence of numerous factors. We are in the "cliff" now.

It started in 2010. 20M enrollment in 2010. Closer to 18M now. Yes it will get worse. All these small marginal campuses need to be closed. We can't fund everything. They teach basic classes - put them online for 1/10th of the cost, which can also make it more affordable for more people anyway. Again, still nothing to do with NCAA.

https://educationdata.org/college-enrollment-statistics

 

[Lubener]

It is a path for him back to the NFL and try to beat Don Shula's win record. He needs 14 to tie.

 

[edyvw]

Basics of education are not the college's job. Its high school. Yes I know - good luck with that. Its not the NCAA's issue really either?


The associate professors that do most of the teaching make nothing, I agree. The name brand professors that do research attract grant money that the school also wants - so there the same as the football program in the end - its all about money. How does a university tax income?




It started in 2010. 20M enrollment in 2010. Closer to 18M now. Yes it will get worse. All these small marginal campuses need to be closed. We can't fund everything. They teach basic classes - put them online for 1/10th of the cost, which can also make it more affordable for more people anyway. Again, still nothing to do with NCAA.

https://educationdata.org/college-enrollment-statistics

But absolutely has to do with NCAA. NCAA is a cash cow. As long as flagship campuses are racking up profits, smaller ones, which you absolutely need, more so than flagship ones, will struggle. Not to mention, again, in-state tuition will skyrocket.
As for online education, I will say one thing: we, as a society, will pay dearly for what we are doing now. We chose convenience over education. We turned education into the service industry. It is not sustainable to keep quality.

 

[4WD]

But absolutely has to do with NCAA. NCAA is a cash cow. As long as flagship campuses are racking up profits, smaller ones, which you absolutely need, more so than flagship ones, will struggle. Not to mention, again, in-state tuition will skyrocket.
As for online education, I will say one thing: we, as a society, will pay dearly for what we are doing now. We chose convenience over education. We turned education into the service industry. It is not sustainable to keep quality.

And then the knock-on effects. We now have high school stadiums a college would have been proud of a few years ago - fancy physical training facilities - and the high school head coach making more than the Supt.

 

[edyvw]

And then the knock-on effects. We now have high school stadiums a college would have been proud of a few years ago - fancy physical training facilities - and the high school head coach making more than the Supt.

Yep.
I mean, priorities got messed up royally!

 

[Ranger83]

Wonder if he will pull Ernie Adams out of retirement?

In case anyone is worried Belichick can’t do his job at age 72: UNC Football has 10 coaches, right now. Other programs have 12 or more: Nebraska has 22, plus four graduate assistants. His main job may be to schmooze parents.

Belichick’s father was a coach at USNA and he grew up there, so he’s familiar with the environment. FYI UNC has a bowl game 12/28.

https://goheels.com/feature/FB-coach-2024

https://goheels.com/news/2024/12/8/football-selected-for-2024-wasabi-fenway-bowl-against-uconn

These college-sponsored semi-professional football teams are good entertainment. That’s why they get huge amounts of money from tv contracts. Easy to understand why educators think this is bad: hard to understand how it negatively affects students.

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/c...-conferences-revenue-athlete-pay-plan-horizon

Dartmouth fought the unionization of their [terrible] basketball team. The U’s primary concern? They don’t want athletes to be considered university employees. Stay tuned.

https://www.foley.com/insights/publ...sketball-teams-ill-fated-unionization-effort/

 

[I<3oil]

Oh, I know that.

I was just stating for general public knowledge. $10mil was the ceiling a few years ago that seemed untouchable but them BLAMMY, bye ceiling.

 

[Ranger83]

Years ago my best friend ran a family paper converting business headquartered in NH. They started looking for another factory in a southern state.

One of the states was Alabama. The state trade representative took them to a number of locations. A final stop was to meet Coach Bear Bryant. He’d been briefed on their situation, and expressed his desire they choose Alabama for their plant, “And join us for some games next season.”

NC seems to be doing great at attracting northerners (much to the chagrin of natives, I imagine) to their cities, but this could be part of their effort to promote the state in entirety. While the research triangle and other cities are booming, small towns seem to have been left behind due to offshoring of textiles, furniture and other industries.

 

[SC Maintenance]

But absolutely has to do with NCAA. NCAA is a cash cow. As long as flagship campuses are racking up profits, smaller ones, which you absolutely need, more so than flagship ones, will struggle. Not to mention, again, in-state tuition will skyrocket.
As for online education, I will say one thing: we, as a society, will pay dearly for what we are doing now. We chose convenience over education. We turned education into the service industry. It is not sustainable to keep quality.

I don't see it that way and you haven't said anything regarding how it actually makes tuition more. SEC college tuition is significantly less than other schools with lesser programs.

We have too many schools, especially these small regional places that teach pretty general stuff. That stuff can easily go online for a fraction of the cost. All these complaints about people not being able to afford college - solved. We spend too much public money supporting what amounts to a telephone landline - a cast back to an ancient past.

If the biggest schools attract more students, so be it. Survival of the fittest.

Sure, the NCAA is a cash cow. In Europe you have one million soccer leagues with full stadiums. We have the NFL and NBA. Rome had the games, Greece had the olympics. Yes we likely spend too much on sports and always have. But your yelling at clouds. Who cares if SEC inc is affiliated with some public colleges. The money will be spent on sports somewhere, so good for them for grabbing it.

 

[edyvw]

I don't see it that way and you haven't said anything regarding how it actually makes tuition more. SEC college tuition is significantly less than other schools with lesser programs.

We have too many schools, especially these small regional places that teach pretty general stuff. That stuff can easily go online for a fraction of the cost. All these complaints about people not being able to afford college - solved. We spend too much public money supporting what amounts to a telephone landline - a cast back to an ancient past.

If the biggest schools attract more students, so be it. Survival of the fittest.

Sure, the NCAA is a cash cow. In Europe you have one million soccer leagues with full stadiums. We have the NFL and NBA. Rome had the games, Greece had the olympics. Yes we likely spend too much on sports and always have. But your yelling at clouds. Who cares if SEC inc is affiliated with some public colleges. The money will be spent on sports somewhere, so good for them for grabbing it.

Sure. Good luck.

 

[gman2304]

FYI UNC has a bowl game 12/28.

There are 47 Bowl games this season. Yes, UNC vs UCONN ( both basketball schools ) in the Wasabi/Fenway Bowl. There’s also the “Snoop Dog Arizona Bowl presented by Gin&Juice by Dre and Snoop “ ! ……among about 40 other meaningless Bowl Games!

 

[SC Maintenance]

There are 47 Bowl games this season. Yes, UNC vs UCONN ( both basketball schools ) in the Wasabi/Fenway Bowl. There’s also the “Snoop Dog Arizona Bowl presented by Gin&Juice by Dre and Snoop “ ! ……among about 40 other meaningless Bowl Games!

They sell lots of tickets to what would otherwise be empty stadiums.

Much to the chagrin of many here it seems.

 

[Ranger83]

Who would want to miss the Wasabi Fenway Bowl!

USMA vs USNA today at 3pm.

 

[PontiacHO]

Didn’t see this coming. One of the greatest ( if not THE greatest) NFL coaches of all time signs a 5 year $50 million deal at a public university. The Tarheel football team needs some help but……

But……North Carolina citizens going without basic necessities that were ravaged by Hurricane Helen….
But……They’re just mountain people. They won’t get in front of a camera crew to complain about how underprivileged and forgotten they are.
But……North Carolina public school teachers are some of the lowest paid educators in the nation although they are required to have the same college educational requirements as anywhere in the United States.
But……The roads, bridges, and general ground transportation infrastructure in North Carolina is so poor that it’s embarrassing as well as ruining decent vehicles.
The list can go on!
But…..Belachick is the highest paid North Carolina state employee in history.
But…..My retirement is North Carolina State Retiremnent which of course hasn’t seen a COLA raise in the 10 years I’ve been retired…

 

[Al]

Overrated and Old.