Based on these specs, which oil is better?

[SlavaB]

Sorry if this is a really dummy/noob/already asked question

So let's simulate a situation where we've got 2 anonymous samples oil.

Both oils are
- 5w30
- Full Synthetic
- D1G2

As a guinea pig for it's application, let's use a typical GDI engine which might or might not have a fuel dilution problem.

Here is the limited amount of specs we know about oils:

Sample A
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 11.0
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt 61.7
Viscosity Index 172
Pour Point, ºC -42
Flash Point, ºC 230

Sample B
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 9.8
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt 53.9
Viscosity Index 170
Pour Point, ºC -48
Flash Point, ºC 207

Which oil do you think is better in the application and why?

Disclaimer: both specs are from name brand oils, I'm just trying to understand what matters if we forget about brands.

 

[Gokhan]

The first one is M1 (it has some PAO) and the second one is PPPP (GTL) .

They are both good. What you didn't disclose is the HTHSV, which is 3.1 vs. 3.0 cP, respectively.

A_Harman indexes are 0.86 and 0.94, respectively. So, PPPP has less VII.

They will both work, as any other oil with dexos1 Gen 2.

 

[SlavaB]

Thx Gokhan for disclosing the names, the whole point was not to guess the brand but understand why those numbers matter

 

[ZeeOSix]

Oil B is a pretty thin 5W-30 ... sure that's the correct KV100? If you're worried about fuel dilution then use Oil A, which is a thick 5W-30.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by SlavaB
Thx Gokhan for disclosing the names, the whole point was not to guess the brand but understand why those numbers matter

I know. I feel like somewhere between the Sheldon in The Big Bang Theory and Hal the computer in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

 

[SlavaB]

no worries, I was sure bitogers will uncover the names right away haha. Saw a mobil1 sale at costco today, maybe should go back and grab those 6 quarts for $28.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted by SlavaB
no worries, I was sure bitogers will uncover the names right away haha. Saw a mobil1 sale at costco today, maybe should go back and grab those 6 quarts for $28.


Or get 5qts for $20 at Walmart; they have some great prices right now. Not sure about which exact ones, But the 10w-30HM and some others are that price. If you live in Bellevue, and unless you are driving to Northern Idaho a lot in the winter, you might look at the 10w-30, a more robust oil sand climate-appropriate blend than a 5w, with less VIIs.

 

[OilUzer]

Oil A in summer
Oil B in winter

besides the point but iirc, gdi & fuel dilution go together so there is no maybe

 

[Kamele0N]

SampleA...thicker...higher flashpoint...

 

[Dave P.]

You also need to consider that different test methods may be used as is the case of Flash Point. Mobil 1 seems to use ASTM D92 and Pennzoil uses ASTM D97. These different methods will yield different results so it may be comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Cujet]

Here in south FL, sample A is the right choice.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by dpaldino
You also need to consider that different test methods may be used as is the case of Flash Point. Mobil 1 seems to use ASTM D92 and Pennzoil uses ASTM D97. These different methods will yield different results so it may be comparing apples to oranges.

This is an excellent point, I didn't realize for quite some time that XOM was out of step with most of the rest of the industry in measuring flashpoint.
I have used a lot of M1 5W30 and no PPPP 5W30 over the last 4 years, so I guess that is my answer to the question...the XOM product had very comparable CCS test performance to the SOPUS one pre-d1G2 and I'd guess it's even better than the present version despite the pour point differences. M1 5W30 has always been right around 4000cP at -30C in the analyses I've seen while SOPUS is claiming 4480cP for PPPP 5W30 right now. Pour point is really a terrible way to evaluate cold starting performance for an oil, that's why the MRV and CCS tests were developed.
I also like that M1 5W30 has somewhat higher viscosity than PPPP, although it is worthy of note that the HTHS advantage for the former is only about 3% while it is about 12% thicker at 100C.

 

[doitmyself]

Someone correct me if wrong. While it is fun to attempt to choose an oil based on it's VOA data, the real test are the UOA numbers after your OCI. For instance, the second oil might have better quality components and at the end of a 5,000 mile OCI it is in better condition than the first oil. Just an analogy.

 

[Brigadier]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
Oil A in summer
Oil B in winter

besides the point but iirc, gdi & fuel dilution go together so there is no maybe

My Santa Fe is GDI and shows no evidence of fuel dilution at all.

But I would go with the first one based on the specs given.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

C which is likely cheaper and as good as A and B.

 

[dave1251]

Both are going to protect the same.

 

[Gokhan]

Based on KV40 and KV100 (which also give the VI) alone, you know next to nothing about an oil.

Pour point doesn't mean anything either, as it's controlled by the PPD.

Here is the TEOST 33C data, which should somewhat relate to GDI IVD. QUSD (Bintulu GTL, known as XHVI) is very similar to PP (Pearl GTL, known as PurePlus, or Bintulu GTL in the non-PurePlus formulation).

Again, without seeing any test results, Super Tech conventional without dexos1 may beat both M1 and PP in TEOST 33C and IVD as far as we know. In the AAA oil study, some conventional oils beat some synthetic oils in TEOST 33C. Being synthetic doesn't guarantee better performance in deposit tests. Interestingly, lower NOACK may result in more deposits as I explained in other threads.

You will be fine with any quality conventional or synthetic, with or without dexos1. The main advantage of a synthetic is an increased OCI.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Gokhan, that chart is from a 2013 Amsoil ad and most of those oils have been reformulated or don't exist anymore (like Pennzoil Ultra and Valvoline Synpower).
SOPUS' GTL products had not been introduced at that point.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Gokhan, that chart is from a 2013 Amsoil ad and most of those oils have been reformulated or don't exist anymore (like Pennzoil Ultra and Valvoline Synpower).
SOPUS' GTL products had not been introduced at that point.

Actually, SOPUS has used GTL for over two decades. PurePlus is the Pearl GTL, which is new. However, before that, they have been using the less advertised XHVI, which is the Bintulu GTL, since the mid-1990s. There are some differences between the two products but the main difference is the capacities of the two plants. I've discussed this in another thread:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...es-compared-to-gtl-pennz-pup#Post4977121

It's true that Pennzoil Ultra, which was PAO, is gone. Yes, recently, there has been the SN PLUS reformulation with most oils. I was making some general points about synthetics and NOACK.

 

[OilUzer]

Since the deposits are all at or under the limit, does this fall under the "noise" category again?