Bar's Head Gasket Repair

[ziddey]

I know this is more of an oil forum, but I figure you guys would be more knowledgeable than most places. That said, I can again imagine that you'd say to just do it right rather than try a bandaid solution. But here's the situation. It's my friend's car; a 97 legacy 2.5l i4.

The car blew the head gasket, which is causing exhaust to go into the cooling system, thus pressurizing it (and with an air pocket by the engine), causing coolant to dump into the overflow and then spew out. Engine overheats. The car is going to be junked anyway, so I figure why not try some Bar's head gasket repair and see if it'll give even a little life left. It would be great if the car could function even until this summer or optimistically, the summer after this one. And if it doesn't work, it's not much money lost anyway.

I'm curious if any of you have tried this in a similar scenario? The directions say to pull the plugs and see if there's coolant on any of them, and if so, to remove the plug and run the engine without it. However, that's for situations where coolant is going into the system. In my case, it's the exhaust that's going into the cooling system.

I have no way of determining compression or leak down testing, so would there be any way I could figure this out easily? Someone mentioned one of the plugs may still be more clear, but is this right? I'm hoping it's just one cylinder, since I understand that it requires multiple applications for multiple cylinders.

I had a t-fitting I was intending on installing in my own car, but it would make more sense to use it in this situation. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a garden hose though, so it'd be pretty moot, as I don't have a pump either that could get water in there. The best I'd be able to do is dump the rad, refill with water, run the car to circulate fluid, and repeat the process a few times to get the coolant amount as low as possible.

The directions say to turn the heat on high, but I've read a lot about rad/heater core clogs because of this stuff, so would it be safe to keep the heater turned off (and thus hopefully the valve closed so the hc isn't disturbed)?

Also, another idea struck me a little. If I ran with only 3 spark plugs (assuming only one faulting cylinder), how bad would it be on the engine? I'm assuming that if I prevented firing in the culprit cylinder that it shouldn't produce any exhaust that'd go into the cooling system. It's used more or less just for around town driving anyway, with high pedestrian count (college), so a lack of power wouldn't be too much of a problem, as long as it allowed the car to be driven.

Thanks for any advice, and if there was anything I missed, please post any general pointers.

 

[BobXRC]

I read a post that someone got this stuff to work, but the leak started again after the engine was stressed. I'd maybe try it on a car that had a very small leak, but with the size of the one you have, I'd throw in the towel.

I had a neon that did just what you wrote. Every day it got worse until if flooded the combustion chambers with coolant. Also the overheating was stressing the wires. The spark plug wires burned out, etc etc. Too much of a pain, if I had to do it over again, I'd have taken the bus.

Did you check the torque on the head bolts?

If it is junk, I'd be tempted to see if I could get a better seal with a little more torque. I have no idea what could go wrong, so I wouldn't do it unless you're ready to call a junk yard.

For all the pain this thing is probably going to cause you, I'd pick to do a headgasket replacement myself.

 

[Quest]

LOL! Another good Subie wasted.

NOne of those Bars leaks would fix a head gasket problem for if the aluminium alloy cylinder is warped due to overheating or so, you bet your pocket book that nothing gonna fix a warped head and a head gasket that has been torn from all it's contact areas.

A head gasket leak is a head gasket leak. The only way to properly solve such problem is to take the heads apart and then measure it for trueness(flat) and also the block deck. If it's bad, send it in for planeing before putting it back with a new head gasket. Installing a new headgasket on a warped head also serves no purpose (but to waste $$ and precious labour time).

*...too bad, another Subie boxer engine gone to waste...*

Q.

 

[Sparkman]

The stock Phase I EJ25 head gaskets are all prone to failure, even without an overheating event. As was mentioned the combustion gases push their way into the cooling system. This is caused by a combination of open-deck design and OEM gaskets that weren't up to the task. No stop-leak product that I know of will fix this problem as the exhaust gases will push it out of the leak.

Our Phase I EJ25 gaskets let loose at about 118k, leading to a fairly severe overheating on the interstate. I pulled the heads and had them checked at a machine shop. They were straight as an arrow. I reinstalled the heads using UPDATED OEM gaskets, and nearly 100k later not a sign of a leak.

Anything short of replacing the gaskets with the updated design is a waste of time IMHO. Many engines do end up with warped heads or a damaged block due to abuse after the first signs of a gasket problem.

If the car is really ready to be scrapped then keep it full of coolant and drive it, else fix it properly.

This topic has been beat to death on the Subaru boards, I suggest USMB or NASIOC.

 

[ziddey]

Hey, we're in central ny too. #@$%!. Looks like USMB is done with and NASIOC is down for maintenance right now.

Car's got about 105k iirc. Temp gauge been to hot a few times, so I'd begin to question warping.

What are the chances the gasket is only blown around one cylinder? If that's the case, how healthy would it be to remove a spark plug or keep it disconnected? I figure if it doesn't combust, there's no gas to push into the cooling system. I know it'd affect balance of the engine, but if it'd give a year of usage, at the expense of power, that'd be fine.

Thanks

 

[Quest]

LOL ziddey!

You and your "wild" ideas.

 

[BobXRC]

I once took a V6 and removed a piston because it spun a bearing. The spun bearing had uneven wear, so the only true fix was to machine the crank. Too cheap, and we (kids at the time), decided to try removing the piston. We cut up the valves and wielded the valve holes shut (to keep oil out of the intake and outtake)

If ran like #@$%! and died two weeks later.

The lesson learned was that we wasted more time and money tring to do something cheap. With a little more effort we could have got the crank out and had it machined - the car could have lasted years or could have been sold for something more than junk.

Why not do the gasket and/or a new head (if you look online, you'll be suprised how cheap a rebuilt head can be).
I'd look at it as an chance to hone my skills.

 

[ziddey]

I really have no deep skills, nor any tools necessary. #@$%! my tools don't even give me enough torque to remove the bolts to do my brakes. And it's 5'f outside

 

[88Dakota]

I'd only use it if his situation is one where if it doesn't work( and it probably won't) then he can immediately get new transportation.

It sounds like he's looking to junk this car anyways, so there's not much risk in my eyes.

 

[Sparkman]

Tell us more about the condition of the car, why is he thinking of junking it? Why not just fix it?

A couple of years ago I swapped a 2.2 into a '99 outback with terminal illness. Worked out pretty well in the end.

I'm in Lansing BTW.

 

[ziddey]

lol lansing. i'm right next door.

I personally feel it's alright of a car, but my friend and his parents do not want to dump any more money into the car.

 

[cousincletus]

I've heard that the Bars Leaks head gasket sealant works on external leaks, not pressure leaks. For example, the 2.2 GM OHC engine can have a head gasket leak start at the left front corner of the head by the #4 Cylinder on the exhaust side. The leak isn't under pressure and the coolant won't go into the cylinder, so the Bars Leaks product will work well in this case. I haven't tried this myself, but read it on a Cavalier forum.

 

[Turbozombie]

Quote:

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I've heard that the Bars Leaks head gasket sealant works on external leaks, not pressure leaks. For example, the 2.2 GM OHC engine can have a head gasket leak start at the left front corner of the head by the #4 Cylinder on the exhaust side. The leak isn't under pressure and the coolant won't go into the cylinder, so the Bars Leaks product will work well in this case. I haven't tried this myself, but read it on a Cavalier forum.

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I have used the GM stop leak for that exact problem on a Sunfire and it does work.

 

[Michael Jones]

I also had the same exact problem on a 79 Datsun. The # 4 plug would misfire and come out wet with coolant. The product I used was KM Block Seal. You must follow directions exactly. I probably ran it another 50K miles before my ex wife sold it. I loved that truck.

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

Quote:

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I know this is more of an oil forum, but I figure you guys would be more knowledgeable than most places. That said, I can again imagine that you'd say to just do it right rather than try a bandaid solution. But here's the situation. It's my friend's car; a 97 legacy 2.5l i4.

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The OEM standard procedure when doing a drain/refill of the coolant on the Subaru 2.5 turbo is to add a bottle of leak fix. My wife's Forester XT loses about a cup of coolant per year, its quite common over at NASIOC.com.

If you go to your Subaru service dept, they have an OEM version, but it is essentially Bars Leak. Comes in a small blue bottle with a red cap.

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

Forgot to add. I add the OEM Subaru gasket/leak fix to a 1993 Mercury Sable that is leaking coolant into the engine. Burns off about a gallon every 3 months in the winter.

I've been adding the OEM Subaru leak fix for 3 years. Still running strong. At 190k miles, were only providing hospice to this car.