Baldwin B50 on my Buick PA..... FINALLY

[Nebraskan]

After putting off and looking at place and ideas on where to put my Baldwin B50 filter, I finally have it installed on the car now.

I bought one of those blue anodized sandwich adapters with the 4 port 1/8 NPT plugs and used one of them with a 90 degree elbow and a 1/8 NPT x 1/4" barb and some 1/4" fuel injector line. The return is simply into the drilled hole in the oil fill cap. BOY was I surprised at how much oil really flows out that hose at an idle!

After looking at the small restrictor orifice on the B50 Baldwin filter, I was expecting something of a trickle. Wonder what the flow is? Looks like I could fill a gallon jug in a minute or two.

Which brings me to ask on here... How well do the barb hose end hold with hose clamps? I would think that if the hose popped off, either at the sandwich connector or the inlet at the filter mount, I could loose oil at an alarming rate. I don't think the oil return line after the filter is such an issue, as there is really nil for pressure of the oil going to a zero pressure return point.

I'll have to take pics soon!

 

[Gary Allan]

I wouldn't worry about the barb or the clamp ..but injection hose isn't rated for that temp. Trans cooler hose is a much better choice. You can also get cheaper hydraulic hose. It's not rated for hot oil either (212F typically) ..but it's pressure burst level is something like 5000 lbs and the working pressure (IIRC) is around 3500 ...so it's really unlikely that you'll live long enough to fatigue it.

Didn't you use a dual Permacool for this setup? If so, you surely can be passing more oil than you anticipated.

 

[Nebraskan]

Hi Gary!
Nice to see ya! This is Goodyear 65151 fuel injector hose with the nitrile inner lining (blue) here is the website for reference: http://www.goodyearep.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=5250

The 65151 is the 1/4" stuff rated at -29 to 275 F, with 900 lb burst and working load of 100 PSI. The stuff at Lowe's is fuel line hose but cost only 80 cents/foot This cost me $3.99/ foot at Autozone.

I have the dual Permacool in the garage. Never found a good place to place it as it was kind of long. Barely found room for the Baldwin filter and it's mounting bracket. So, the only oil passing is what comes through that little orifice, and I can see where that pop-valve in the bypass filters would let sufficient oil BY for the regular oil filter. Oil line and filter got pretty warm right away. Of course it has only been around 2 hours since driving the engine before adding the sandwich, new filter and the rest of the hoses, so that engine was probably not fully cooled down.

I thought about putting a safety pin in the hose that returns oil to the oil fill cap, just to help insure that it didn't slip out. What a mess that would make if it did!!! I have also thought of one of those 1/2" inside locking rings with those grips. move it up the hose a bit (inside the cap area) and it would definitely be nearly impossible to yank the oil line hose out of the cap.

 

[Gary Allan]

For the fastening at the oil cap, just get a threaded nipple and lock tite the couplers after you've put washers over the nipple to take up any slack that the fitting may not manage (if you see what I mean - engine side - fitting lock-tite(d) ..nipple passing through cap ...washers ..fitting lock-tite(d) .reducer ..hose barb...hose). That should allow you to rotate it ..but not have anything fall off/out/whatever.

That fuel line has some really high temp and pressure ratings. Trans cooler line would have been less expensive though. It may, depending what SAE spec they're carrying, be lower than your fuel line in temp rating.

Good to see you checking in here

 

[handyman]

How do you like that sandwich adapter? That seems like a good way of hooking up some oil temperature and pressure gauges.

 

[Nebraskan]

I like it very well. I had a OEM sandwich adapter, but it had a prong that fit up inside where the oil filter goes and would not clear between the oil mount and the frame. This unit is very compact, has 4 threaded ports, with attached 1/8" NPT plugs and fits just about any fashion I want to use by rotating it a bit. Sometimes there is not much space there and this is no exception with my Buick. The unit adds just a little over an inch, but nothing major. You cannot use one plug for oil cooler and the other plug for return though as the plugs all have equal share to oil/pressure and would never be able to return oil to the lower pressure side. But, for attaching oil remote line (bypass filter), oil pressure, oil temp, etc., it has a lot of merit.

 

[unDummy]

When hot, flow from a bypass is noticeable. The B50 orifice might actually be a bit big for your engine. You should take a measure of the flow at idle for a minute.
If flow through the bypss is too much, you will have a PSI and flow drop throughout the engine. 1 quart per minute at hot idle is a good starting point. I'm under the impression that you could see as much as 2 quarts a minute with a B50 or B164.

The B50's 1/16, or was it 1/20", orifice is too big for passenger vehicles. Consider a 1/25 flow restrictor or a metering valve.

Another orifice variable is PSI. You do not want more then 10psi lost to the bypass. Restrict bypass flow until the engine oil pressure lost is <10psi. You'll need an accurate oil PSI gauge and oil temp gauge for this comparison.

 

[Nebraskan]

Yes, the B50 is near 1/16" or 0.0625 inch diameter hole. Doesn't seem like very much of a oil passage, does it?

I checked my oil pressure on my car's gage before and after the install. I was running 60 PSI driving at around 55-60 MPH. At idle it appears to be slightly less than what it was before, somewhere in the neighborhood of 15-20 PSI. Grant it, too much flow through the filter might not leave enough for the engine, but if the gage above the sandwich is showing around 60 PSI during driving, that should be sufficient. As SOON as I give it gas, though, the oil pressure jumps up to 40-60 (depending on the RPM).

After some driving, I am sure that this filter, like all depths filters, will begin to clog up a bit with material. That is their (depth filter) nature, and in one sense they work well in that now the new material in the pores help with tighter filtering. However, they also loose flow. So as soon as this filter begins to get some build up, the flow should decrease.

 

[Gary Allan]

Now that you understand how that itty-bitty relief port on the Permacool is typically more than enough to handle most engine's oil flow, you can see the advantage of using one in that you merely channel flow through your bypass filter ...instead of truly bypassing the engine. It's totally self regulating.

..but you appear to be satisfied with your setup and have no apparent issues with it as it stands. I'd do just one cheap UOA to see if anything is too out of whack.

 

[Nebraskan]

Yep...nothing like seeing how much can flow though a 0.065" opening. I would not think water would pump through there as fast!! LOL Maybe I'll have to really measure it. I could be exaggerating a bit...perhaps.

The PermaCool sandwich would have been alright, except for the physical dimensions. I'll have to take a pic of the clearance and explain sometime. Where the sandwich I have mounts on, there is very little clearance around it for any extra knobs or bulges. The design feature of this sandwich (pictures at this link -> )http://www.glowshiftgauges.com/oilsandwichadapters.html
oil filter adapter are different than the one marketed by PermaCool. In the bottom pictures, there is the "oil cooler adapter" that is similar to the PermaCool, but I got the one above with the 4 ports in it, reasoning that the tolerance in outside dimensions are a lot smaller.

Yes, routing the oil back to the underside of the filter would have been a pressure differential that would be self regulating. However, there is also the need to bring the oil line back down to the filter sandwich. Right now I have about 6 feet of that $3.99/ft stuff so that would have doubled the amount of feet needed.

As far as putting in a restrictor valve, wouldn't it work the same if I put a hose clam on the rubber line before the filter and simply "constricted" the line a bit there, slowing down the flow? At least that way the hose clamp could be relaxed a bit as the filter gained more material, and would slow down on it's own accord.

At the winery, when they filter the wines, they slow the flow down on the upstream side and never restrict the downstream (after the filters) flow as they say that the downstream restriction causes channeling in the filter pads. Is this right? Seems that if the upstream and downstream are retarded, all this should affect is the volume of fluid being filtered.

 

[unDummy]

The B50 isn't a true bypass. From what I understand, it is merely a denser media pleated oil filter. Will it load up quickly enough and reduce flow is something for you to test yourself. You should cut one open when you're done with it.

Without UOA back to back comparisons monitoring engine wear, I wouldn't think that 1/16 isn't too big. If anything, it is sized for larger engines that have larger sumps and pumps.

Also, OEM in car dash oil gauges should not be used. And, OEM oil PSI sender locations aren't always where we think they are. Are you sure that the guage sender is 'after' the filter? Many OEM PSI senders are before the filter. Trace your oiling system.

I truly like the method that Gary mentions. Mount it parallel and don't lose the flow.

Since a hose clamp is 'cheap', it would be an easy way to reduce oil flow simply by squeezing the line a little.

I wouldn't worry about up or down streams. Pinch and restrict it anywhere.

 

[Nebraskan]

I would think that any filter, even the 3900 series filters, if mounted apart from the normal filter and flow reduced during filtering, with return to the engine would be considered a true bypass. Some filters would obviously be better at this than others. Always a trade off to particle size filtered, ease of replacement and costs. The B 50 filters down to 5 micron nominal with 10 micron absolute. With red blood cells measuring 8 micron, I am happy with that.

The Car's OEM sender is above the oil filter mount unit after the filter. It is in such a precarious place I decided not to try the T fitting to get the oil at that place. The sandwich works best here. It's probably not the finest but is it consistent in what it reads/shows and as I travel 60 mph it registers about 60 lbs, and never much above that regardless of rpm. At idle, with the new
B 50 filter in place, the idle pressure is around 20-30 PSI and a fast idle or during starts that the oil is less than HOT, it's idle is at 40 PSI.

This is a direct link to two photos of the setup, along with the oil on the dipstick

http://vernsdidj.scottieluvr.com/photo.htm Click the thumbnail to get a large pic

 

[Nebraskan]

I'm amiss on my earlier statement above that the B50 has a 5 micron filter rating. I called Baldwin in Kearny, NE and talked with engineers there and it is a 1 to 2 micron filter. They said the restrictor orifice is there to slow down the oil flow and also "mainly" to only take 10% of the oil through it at any give time. They calculate that the oil pump delivers around 3 to 4 gallons/ minute to the engine, so at 10% that would amount to around 1.2 to 1.6 quarts per minute, nearly 1/2 gallon in one minute. Still, it's only fractional of what flows through the engine in all their ports and clearances.

So I stand corrected. The B50 is much tighter filtering that I had stated.

 

[Gary Allan]

Vern, looks like you've got it where you want it. Keep in mind we're anal here ..and every installation, unless it exceeded OAM (obsessive anal male) spec's ..will get some criticism even if it doesn't make a difference

Restrictors do a couple of things in filters. They reduce the flow rate/velocity of the oil flow through the filter, increasing its efficiency. They also attenuate the flow ..somewhat flattening the normal curve one would see if you ran it straight up. This would have lots of flow when new ...decreasing flow as it saturates. The restrictor simulates this near plugged condition.

I'd say that the filter would channel with either. In either case the flow is going to seek the first available pathway ..and migrate to the next when that gets saturated. Stuff like MG/Frantz don't have a whole lot of options given how the flow travels through the media, but a regular style filter would just short circuit until that area is plugged. It's probably more of a decreasing distribution of flow and not an outright dead still well. Much use of the term, "it depends".

 

[Nebraskan]

Quote:

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Vern, looks like you've got it where you want it. Keep in mind we're anal here ..and every installation, unless it exceeded OAM (obsessive anal male) spec's ..will get some criticism even if it doesn't make a difference

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LOL

Quite understandable. I just remember reading one time and studying a graphy that showed the increase of life expectancy of an engine in regards to size of abrasive material filtered out. Intersting thing is yes you get longer life expectancy at http://www.oilguard.com/HomepageExtendingEngineLife.htm
I have more worry abour rust on my rocker panels and underneath from this salty (winter) country than I do from worrying if the car's engine lasts to 300,000 miles and beyond.

 

[DaveL]

Would it have been an option to have the return from the bypass filter go to the input side of the sandwich adapter? If so, why did you choose to return to the oil filler cap?

 

[DaveL]

I reviewed some of the old threads and think I answered my own question.

My understanding is that while you can bring the return to the sandwich, when using a bp filter that has a built in flow restrictor (tiny orifice), that configuration may lead to a smaller pressure drop across the bp filter than you want.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, no ..but the effect is the same ...maybe

When you use a sandwich adapter (one that's normally used to integrate a cooler), it has a poppet relief valve that (usually) maintains 2PSID across whatever is connected to the ports. The flow through the bypass filter will be whatever 2psi can move in oil at the current viscosity. Now with the restrictor installed, you'll still drop 2PSID across the bypass filter ..but the flow will be attenuated somewhat due to the added choke of the restrictor.

Not really a big deal either way if you ask me. I would reason that it would flatten the curve of the filter's saturation as it would evidence itself in flow alterations.

 

[Nebraskan]

DaveL, as far as returning to the cap vs the sandwich adapter, this one is a bit different than the PermaCool models. PermaCool has the poppet valve and would allow a differential pressure to move into the BP filter, and then back again. Not with this sandwich. It is basically a 1" thick spacer with gasket on one side (motor side) and a cross hatch + of material in the center (IE center is open design for hollow connecting bolt) but has 4 evenly spaced braces in it's makeup. Looks like a donut with a thick "X" design in the center with the hollow area for the bolt, and then on the outside of the adapter are 4 ea drilled and taped holes for 1/8" NPT. Pick one. No difference from one hole to the other for oil pressure, therefore, return to one of the other holes is useless. It has to go to a "lesser" pressure point or zero pressure point to allow any flow to go through the filter.

BTW. I wonder now if the best bet is to go through the sandwich and NOT through a running "T" adapter from the oil pressure sending unit. The "T" side would give you oil that would have already been run through the filter (Full Flow), but the oil leaving for the BP filter at the same location that the oil takes a reading for pressure as it's going to engine components, might show more of a drop in oil pressure, real or imagined.

link here to picture to show my VAGUE descriptions: I have the Oil Filter adaptor, not the Oil Cooler Adaptor. http://www.glowshiftgauges.com/oilsandwichadapters.html

Oil Cooler Adaptor appears to have the poppet valve like the PermaCool design.

 

[beanoil]

I'm learning, slowly. This thread interests me. I have purchased a new/used tow vehicle for my travel trailer. If I understand Gary's statement above, I could get one of the sandwich adapters from the link posted, a filter mount posted in another link, and a B50 from Baldwin. If I used the oil cooler adapter, I could plumb the lines to and from the filter mount to the sandwich adapter, screw on the B50 and filter down to about 2 micron? Seems too easy, but if true, I'm getting on this project soon. This accomplishes several goals for me.. better filtering, increased capacity, and longer engine life.