Michelin Harmony lasted almost forever, I had a set on my LS400 and didn't replaced it until more than 110k miles later. Other brands on the LS400 never lasted more than 35-40k miles.
Bad Michelin Defenders ?
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Originally Posted By: CKN
I'm going to bookmark this thread next time the Cheerleaders on BITOG.com recommend Michelin Tires. BTW-you can get many posts on the Internet about the newer Michelin Tires with widespread dry rot issues as well.
He just recently bought another set of Michelin tires. Not all tires from all manufacturers are perfect. Michelin just tends to generally be better than most.
I'm going to bookmark this thread next time the Cheerleaders on BITOG.com recommend Michelin Tires. BTW-you can get many posts on the Internet about the newer Michelin Tires with widespread dry rot issues as well.
He just recently bought another set of Michelin tires. Not all tires from all manufacturers are perfect. Michelin just tends to generally be better than most.
I am not buying Michelin no more. It used to be very good ( Michelin primacy mxv4 ). Now they carry Michelin premier. This is for 2006 Camry. This premier doesn't last long. ( 44k ). I am not going to gamble again with Michelin premier.
Now I have General altimax rt43. The ride is smooth, and quiet.
Now I have General altimax rt43. The ride is smooth, and quiet.
I put my tread gauge to one of them yesterday and it cleared 10/32" where I checked in a couple spots. Mine are 185/65-14 on a 96 civic. I need to get my alignment checked so I get the most wear out of these. Got mine $385 for the set at Costco with the $70 off coupon a few days ago.
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Hey guys I told you I will let you know about my first fuel up with the new General altimax rt43. I always use chevron gas. I drove 490.9 miles, 15.638 gallons. 31.39 mpg. I use some cruise control, and drive 67 mph average. Tire psi is 30 psi. Owner manual recommend 29.
So the mpg is almost as good as Michelin or even better. You can check my fuelly page. ( hondavtec).
So I am very happy with rt43, the tires are very responsive, braking distance is good, quiet, and smooth.
I hope they last 60k or more. Will keep update.
So the mpg is almost as good as Michelin or even better. You can check my fuelly page. ( hondavtec).
So I am very happy with rt43, the tires are very responsive, braking distance is good, quiet, and smooth.
I hope they last 60k or more. Will keep update.
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Originally Posted By: moto94536
I am not buying Michelin no more. It used to be very good ( Michelin primacy mxv4 ). Now they carry Michelin premier. This is for 2006 Camry. This premier doesn't last long. ( 44k ). I am not going to gamble again with Michelin premier.
Now I have General altimax rt43. The ride is smooth, and quiet.
So they only lasted 44k? That's not a problem if they offered you a pro-rate adjustment.
I am not buying Michelin no more. It used to be very good ( Michelin primacy mxv4 ). Now they carry Michelin premier. This is for 2006 Camry. This premier doesn't last long. ( 44k ). I am not going to gamble again with Michelin premier.
Now I have General altimax rt43. The ride is smooth, and quiet.
So they only lasted 44k? That's not a problem if they offered you a pro-rate adjustment.
You should get better mileage with tire rotations. I do fwd rotations at home. Pair of stands and a floor jack usually all you need depending on the car. Not the easiest but definitely doable. I'm hoping for good wear. You guys have me worried haha but consumer reports rated them excellent in tread wear so maybe there was just a bad batch.
Originally Posted By: moto94536
Thank you for your advise. If I were you, I will be very careful. I will not trust the floor jack. The correct way for fwd rotation is forward cross. How do you do with 2 jack stand, and floor jack. Please explain it to me.
It's easy if your vehicle has a center rear jack point, as both of my vehicles do, and as your Pilot should. I don't know about your Camry.
(1) Crack loose all the lug nuts.
(2) Jack the front of the car up (via the center front jack point on your Pilot, not sure about the Camry). Put the front on jack stands.
(3) Take the two front tires off, and move them straight back, next to the rear tires.
(4) Jack the rear of the car up (via the center rear jack point on your Pilot, not sure about the Camry).
(5) Remove the two rear tires, set them aside, and install the two tires that were on the front. Lower the rear back down to the ground.
(6) Cross the two rear tires to the front, install them, and lower the front.
Doing it this way, you're never under the car supported only by the floor jack, and you also minimize the amount of time the floor jack is supporting one end of the car. It takes me about 30 minutes to do a tire rotation -- it'd take longer than that to just drive somewhere to have it done.
Thank you for your advise. If I were you, I will be very careful. I will not trust the floor jack. The correct way for fwd rotation is forward cross. How do you do with 2 jack stand, and floor jack. Please explain it to me.
It's easy if your vehicle has a center rear jack point, as both of my vehicles do, and as your Pilot should. I don't know about your Camry.
(1) Crack loose all the lug nuts.
(2) Jack the front of the car up (via the center front jack point on your Pilot, not sure about the Camry). Put the front on jack stands.
(3) Take the two front tires off, and move them straight back, next to the rear tires.
(4) Jack the rear of the car up (via the center rear jack point on your Pilot, not sure about the Camry).
(5) Remove the two rear tires, set them aside, and install the two tires that were on the front. Lower the rear back down to the ground.
(6) Cross the two rear tires to the front, install them, and lower the front.
Doing it this way, you're never under the car supported only by the floor jack, and you also minimize the amount of time the floor jack is supporting one end of the car. It takes me about 30 minutes to do a tire rotation -- it'd take longer than that to just drive somewhere to have it done.
you can do them one at a time with just 1 jack if you use a spare or a winter tire.
I jack up one corner leave it on the jack or a dried wood stump I cut to size(depending on if I have 1 or 2 jacks available)then work my way around car.
I'm never under the car and it takes 15min or less.
The other 2 times I rotate are when I put on and take off winter tires so you just go one at a time with a jack.
This is all going pretty far off topic of the Michelin defenders wearing out extremely fast(but even)
I jack up one corner leave it on the jack or a dried wood stump I cut to size(depending on if I have 1 or 2 jacks available)then work my way around car.
I'm never under the car and it takes 15min or less.
The other 2 times I rotate are when I put on and take off winter tires so you just go one at a time with a jack.
This is all going pretty far off topic of the Michelin defenders wearing out extremely fast(but even)
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Do you guys think this rotation will work ? I know forward cross is the right way for fwd. will this work for fwd.?.. Just curious.
Rotation #1. Front to rear.
Rotation #2. Alternate x pattern.
Rotation #3. Front to rear
Rotation #4. Alternate x pattern.
Rotation #5. Front to rear
Rotation #6. Alternate x pattern.
Repeat.....
Rotation #1. Front to rear.
Rotation #2. Alternate x pattern.
Rotation #3. Front to rear
Rotation #4. Alternate x pattern.
Rotation #5. Front to rear
Rotation #6. Alternate x pattern.
Repeat.....
A pair of jack stands costs about $20-$30 after coupon at AA or HF. If you already have a pair, get another one. I should not be giving this advice though as I do have couple of pairs but my jack does not have enough lift to jack up the wheels from the center point :-(
Originally Posted By: moto94536
Do you guys think this rotation will work ? I know forward cross is the right way for fwd. will this work for fwd.?.. Just curious.
Rotation #1. Front to rear.
Rotation #2. Alternate x pattern.
Rotation #3. Front to rear
Rotation #4. Alternate x pattern.
Rotation #5. Front to rear
Rotation #6. Alternate x pattern.
Repeat.....
Here's my 2 cents:
THEE most important thing about tire rotation is the front to rear action. IMHO that's 95% of the way there. Cross rotating adds a bit more to the mix - helpful, but not exactly necessary.
When I do tire rotations, I use a single jack stand to hold you the corner I start on and use the jack on the other corners, working my way around the car. Oh, and I have an pneumatic impact gun that makes short work of the lug nuts.
Also, be aware that vehicle owners manuals have different rotating patterns, and again, IMHO, those are frequently out-dated. These patterns tend to be overlooked when the owners manuals are updated.
What I am trying to say is don't be all hung up about the pattern.
Do you guys think this rotation will work ? I know forward cross is the right way for fwd. will this work for fwd.?.. Just curious.
Rotation #1. Front to rear.
Rotation #2. Alternate x pattern.
Rotation #3. Front to rear
Rotation #4. Alternate x pattern.
Rotation #5. Front to rear
Rotation #6. Alternate x pattern.
Repeat.....
Here's my 2 cents:
THEE most important thing about tire rotation is the front to rear action. IMHO that's 95% of the way there. Cross rotating adds a bit more to the mix - helpful, but not exactly necessary.
When I do tire rotations, I use a single jack stand to hold you the corner I start on and use the jack on the other corners, working my way around the car. Oh, and I have an pneumatic impact gun that makes short work of the lug nuts.
Also, be aware that vehicle owners manuals have different rotating patterns, and again, IMHO, those are frequently out-dated. These patterns tend to be overlooked when the owners manuals are updated.
What I am trying to say is don't be all hung up about the pattern.
Originally Posted By: moto94536
Do you guys think this rotation will work ? I know forward cross is the right way for fwd. will this work for fwd.?.. Just curious.
Rotation #1. Front to rear.
Rotation #2. Alternate x pattern.
Rotation #3. Front to rear
Rotation #4. Alternate x pattern.
Rotation #5. Front to rear
Rotation #6. Alternate x pattern.
Repeat.....
What do you gain by doing the correct pattern only half of the time?
Do you guys think this rotation will work ? I know forward cross is the right way for fwd. will this work for fwd.?.. Just curious.
Rotation #1. Front to rear.
Rotation #2. Alternate x pattern.
Rotation #3. Front to rear
Rotation #4. Alternate x pattern.
Rotation #5. Front to rear
Rotation #6. Alternate x pattern.
Repeat.....
What do you gain by doing the correct pattern only half of the time?
On my FWD van, fronts wear twice as fast as rears, and left side tires wear slightly faster than right side tires. ( right hand turn freeway clover leaf on-ramps.)
On the AWD car, the tires wear maybe 10% faster on the front, if that much.
The front to rear part is the most important... the side to side part is ok if you can do it... and some argue to NOT do it, because your tires get used to rotating one direction, and when you change direction, bad things happen... not sure if there is any truth behind that one...
On the AWD car, the tires wear maybe 10% faster on the front, if that much.
The front to rear part is the most important... the side to side part is ok if you can do it... and some argue to NOT do it, because your tires get used to rotating one direction, and when you change direction, bad things happen... not sure if there is any truth behind that one...
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In my opinion, the side-to-side rotation as important as front-to-back. And I'll caveat that to say that it's not as important for DEPTH of tire wear, but for the PATTERN of wear.
Many vehicles, and especially newer FWD platforms with neutral or slightly positive camber in the front, will wear a heel-and-toe sawtooth pattern in the outer (or inner, or both) tread blocks fairly rapidly (like, within a few thousand miles). Add in some rear toe on many FWD cars, and the tire is generating that scrubbing wear pattern on BOTH ends of the car. This pattern is a major contributor, in my experience, to poorer ride quality and increased noise. Keeping the tires on the same side of the car will just wear this pattern deeper and deeper until tire noise is so unbearable, the tires are replaced due to noise rather than due to physically wearing out.
Many vehicles, and especially newer FWD platforms with neutral or slightly positive camber in the front, will wear a heel-and-toe sawtooth pattern in the outer (or inner, or both) tread blocks fairly rapidly (like, within a few thousand miles). Add in some rear toe on many FWD cars, and the tire is generating that scrubbing wear pattern on BOTH ends of the car. This pattern is a major contributor, in my experience, to poorer ride quality and increased noise. Keeping the tires on the same side of the car will just wear this pattern deeper and deeper until tire noise is so unbearable, the tires are replaced due to noise rather than due to physically wearing out.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: moto94536
Thank you for your advise. If I were you, I will be very careful. I will not trust the floor jack. The correct way for fwd rotation is forward cross. How do you do with 2 jack stand, and floor jack. Please explain it to me.
It's easy if your vehicle has a center rear jack point, as both of my vehicles do, and as your Pilot should. I don't know about your Camry.
(1) Crack loose all the lug nuts.
(2) Jack the front of the car up (via the center front jack point on your Pilot, not sure about the Camry). Put the front on jack stands.
(3) Take the two front tires off, and move them straight back, next to the rear tires.
(4) Jack the rear of the car up (via the center rear jack point on your Pilot, not sure about the Camry).
(5) Remove the two rear tires, set them aside, and install the two tires that were on the front. Lower the rear back down to the ground.
(6) Cross the two rear tires to the front, install them, and lower the front.
Doing it this way, you're never under the car supported only by the floor jack, and you also minimize the amount of time the floor jack is supporting one end of the car. It takes me about 30 minutes to do a tire rotation -- it'd take longer than that to just drive somewhere to have it done.
The thing I personally fear on this approach is that as the vehicle pivots on the front jackstands, that metal edge digs into undercoating/rustproofing and damages it.
Originally Posted By: moto94536
Thank you for your advise. If I were you, I will be very careful. I will not trust the floor jack. The correct way for fwd rotation is forward cross. How do you do with 2 jack stand, and floor jack. Please explain it to me.
It's easy if your vehicle has a center rear jack point, as both of my vehicles do, and as your Pilot should. I don't know about your Camry.
(1) Crack loose all the lug nuts.
(2) Jack the front of the car up (via the center front jack point on your Pilot, not sure about the Camry). Put the front on jack stands.
(3) Take the two front tires off, and move them straight back, next to the rear tires.
(4) Jack the rear of the car up (via the center rear jack point on your Pilot, not sure about the Camry).
(5) Remove the two rear tires, set them aside, and install the two tires that were on the front. Lower the rear back down to the ground.
(6) Cross the two rear tires to the front, install them, and lower the front.
Doing it this way, you're never under the car supported only by the floor jack, and you also minimize the amount of time the floor jack is supporting one end of the car. It takes me about 30 minutes to do a tire rotation -- it'd take longer than that to just drive somewhere to have it done.
The thing I personally fear on this approach is that as the vehicle pivots on the front jackstands, that metal edge digs into undercoating/rustproofing and damages it.
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