I changed the manual transmission fluid in my '04 Honda CR-V at 30,000 miles, since I was changing most of the other fluids at the same time and I figured no harm in doing it. Replaced it with genuine Honda MTF, and shifting was noticeably smoother after doing that. Now, after only 7,000 miles on the oil, I notice that when it's cold it's very stubborn shifting into first or second. Once it's warmed up, it's fine. So, are my synchros already having problems, or is it just lousy fluid? Since I still have the extended warranty I guess I have to stick to Honda stuff, but I'm really surprised it would be having fits already. The owner's manual is very specific about only using Honda MTF, but if nothing else is available, then 10W-30 motor oil can be used in the short term.
Bad manual trans fluid, or bad synchros?
- Thread starter Dave Sherman
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Use a good synthetic MTF such as Amsoil MTF It will not compromise your waranty and will not become so viscous in cooler weather.
I used Redline MTL in our 5 speed 2004 Honda Element, which should be the same engine and trans as yours.
Works very well.
I also tried Specialty Formulations MTL-R in our 2005 Subaru Outback 5 speed and I was very impressed. I may try Specialty Formulations MTL-P in our Element next time.
http://specialtyformulations.netfirms.co...f18797e15ee8608
Works very well.
I also tried Specialty Formulations MTL-R in our 2005 Subaru Outback 5 speed and I was very impressed. I may try Specialty Formulations MTL-P in our Element next time.
http://specialtyformulations.netfirms.co...f18797e15ee8608
I'm guessing from the plugs for Amsoil and Redline that it's most likely the fluid then? What would make the genuine Honda stuff go bad after only 7,000 miles?
When did you buy the Honda MTF? Honda recently changed their MTF for better cold weather performance. It was included in one of the Service News articles. I'll try & look it up tonight.
Ben, it looks like I bought the MTF in May of this year. I talked to the Honda dealer and they think it sounds mighty strange that it would go south so soon, so I've got an appointment to have them check it out and make sure it's not a clutch problem. If anything, I'm hoping I can get a free MTF change out of it.
One of my accounts is a trans shop. Over the years they have found that by just changing the fluid to a synthetic, it can have a huge effect of problems shifting in colder weather. Of course convincing the customer to spend the extra $$ is always the hardest part, all lubes are the same to most.
Update:
Since we had a brief warm-up when the trans was shifting just fine, I ended up not going to the dealer, since I don't think they would have been able to reproduce it. Sure seems like the trans is fine once the fluid warms up, but this morning it got down to 34 again and first and second were being a little slow to go into gear again. Ben, did you happen to find out when Honda changed the MTF formulation? I'm thinking I might save the few $ and change it myself despite the low miles on it, then if it doesn't shift right I'll take it in. I'm leaning towards Amsoil, but if Honda has improved their MTF I'll try the new stuff.
Since we had a brief warm-up when the trans was shifting just fine, I ended up not going to the dealer, since I don't think they would have been able to reproduce it. Sure seems like the trans is fine once the fluid warms up, but this morning it got down to 34 again and first and second were being a little slow to go into gear again. Ben, did you happen to find out when Honda changed the MTF formulation? I'm thinking I might save the few $ and change it myself despite the low miles on it, then if it doesn't shift right I'll take it in. I'm leaning towards Amsoil, but if Honda has improved their MTF I'll try the new stuff.
Honda August 2006 Service News
The info for the MTF change is on page 8. It is p/n 08798-9031. It has a new label with a white cap.
The info for the MTF change is on page 8. It is p/n 08798-9031. It has a new label with a white cap.
Thanks, Ben! Hopefully the new stuff has made it into the dealers.
I'm not sure how much your CRV and my '99 Civic would have in common when it comes to trnasmission s but here's my cold climate (Calgary, Alberta) experience with Hondas. My shift into 1st gear has always been a lilttle stubborn as far back as I can remember and I've had the car since new. I've used the factory fill for the first 90+k kms (60k miles), switched to Redline for a year (no cure), Amsoil for a year (no cure) and I'm now trying Specialty Formulations (no cure and I have at least 1000 kms on the fill now though I do need to double check the fill level). My observations about each of those are that the factory fill felt REALLY heavy in the winter months...like when the car was idling just at startup and I'd let the clutch out with the transmission out of gear, it definitely gave the engine a little jolt. The Redline and Amsoil shifted very smoothly and there was no noticeable difference in shift effort in the winter. I haven't had a chance to try the SF in REALLY cold conditions yet but it has been down to -3 (celsius) overnight and it does seem like the SF likes to have a bit of time to warm up but it really seems to be a nice oil as far as the feel of the shifting goes.
More anecdotal "stuff" - my friend had a Del Sol for a number of years and after a 2 hour trip on the highway during cold spell, it was apparently STILL hard to row through the gears - he's not a oil weenie like me so his was always Honda MTF.
More anecdotal "stuff" - my friend had a Del Sol for a number of years and after a 2 hour trip on the highway during cold spell, it was apparently STILL hard to row through the gears - he's not a oil weenie like me so his was always Honda MTF.
I wouldn't count on the dealers knowing anything about a new, improved MTF. The two Honda dealers I checked with locally had no clue. I'll take a copy of the news letter in for them so that they may become enlightened, in spite of their lack of motivation.
The only bad thing about the Honda MTF is that it thins out pretty quickly.
The only vehicle I ever had hard shifting problems with in the cold was a well-used Dodge Ram50 pickup (a Mitsu Mighty Max) with a 5-speed. The minute it got cold that first winter, it was very difficult rowing through the gears. Chrysler had some cryptic numbered additive that was supposed to cure it, but on a recommendation I tried GM Synchromesh (which, I discovered, is nothing but a straight 75W gear oil they charge $8/quart for) and the problem disappeared. I got a little nervous about the straight 75W, so I switched to a Mobil 1 synthetic 75W-90, and it worked fine, too.
Well, I got the "new and improved" stuff into it yesterday, and it made a world of difference. Shifts silky smooth now, but I'll have to see how long it lasts. If it goes bad as quickly as the last fill I might be trying the Amsoil MTF.
With my '04 S2000 shifting was kinka stiff until I drove a few miles and the fluid warmed up. Don't be too concerned. Seemed to be a common problem, according to the S2000 sites I broused. Suspect it's the same with your car. Never hurts to change the fluid, however. Easiest thing you can do to become "one" with your car, and it saves you a few bucks if you DIY.
Just adding an update to a previous post of mine in this thread though I know the original poster has since tried a solution.
We finally had a good cold snap here and it got down to -25C to -15C for a couple of weeks. There was a noticeable difference in the shift effort required with Specialy Formulations MTL-P while the engine/trans were still warming up. It wasn't as heavy as I remember the Honda factory fill but there was a significant increase in effort. That said, it took very little driving time for that effort to diminish and vanish; I hadn't bothered to look at an odometer but I'm guessing it's less than 1km.
Greg
We finally had a good cold snap here and it got down to -25C to -15C for a couple of weeks. There was a noticeable difference in the shift effort required with Specialy Formulations MTL-P while the engine/trans were still warming up. It wasn't as heavy as I remember the Honda factory fill but there was a significant increase in effort. That said, it took very little driving time for that effort to diminish and vanish; I hadn't bothered to look at an odometer but I'm guessing it's less than 1km.
Greg
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