Bad dealership experience ...

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6


Not ignorance at all.

My response was prompted by your statement,

"The good news is, if I buy a new Ford ... I know where I will NOT be buying it from."

The last thing I would consider would be another Ford.

And I wouldn't be looking at GM, Chrysler, or Nissan either.

Try a Toyota, Honda, or Mazda instead.

Don't want to sound like a commercial but I own three Toyotas right now and I believe you'd be pleased with a Toyota vehicle and the dealer service.

I've had nothing but normal maintenance (oil changes and tires only) with my Toyotas at 80,000, 60,000, and 30,000 miles.

Each of them still feel brand new.

400,000 miles seems to be well within reach for all of them.



My dad's Honda has had far more downtime than my Ford, with significantly fewer miles, far less abuse, and the Honda is two years newer. Honda has put around $10K in warranty work into it...trans, hybrid battery pack, etc. They have covered it, and the dealer has provided loaners, but it's still nice to not have $10K in issues in the first place.

My mom had a Mazda 3, which now belongs to my sister because her 3 rusted to the point of no return. Good car overall, but the dealer botched some recalls and an oil change on it. My parents still like Mazdas, but don't trust the dealer, and Mazda corporate's "sorry" was a $100 gift card towards accessories. How nice.

The Mazda was replaced with a CPO '11 Ranger. Why? In the past their Rangers have been hassle-free.

At 80K, your cars should feel brand new. They can wear the 400K mile badge when they actually hit 400K miles.

Funny you say people buy Fords because Ford = car. That's why a lot of Camrys are bought. There is a local Toyota dealer that is always screaming CAMRYS, $18,888, AUTOMATIC AND LEATHER!!! That = car.

 

[brslds]

Long time reader and first time poster here. Been reading since 2012, but never had a strong notion to register till this post. I'm with Miller and he is already doing more than he should have to in order for the dealer to repair the part under warranty.

Noey you're [assumption] of Miller's behavior at the dealership shows your level of maturity and makes you and the rest of your responses look like a three letter word. Please troll somewhere else.

I'll add Toyota has its share of employees like Miller posted about. The only Toyota dealership within 50 miles of where I live likes to cut me off and hang up. I do my own maintenance when I can but sometimes I just don't have the time and I'd rather spend my weekends and the time I have left when I get off work with my daughter away from the base.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Story time.

What a lot of my frustrations come from is I work for a company that depends very heavily on its sales organization. If they stopped selling, I'd stop getting a paycheck.

For what we do, we are the best in the industry. Period. That does not always mean the cheapest; there are other fly-by-night operations out there who buy garbage and sell it to unsuspecting companies, or larger companies who do not care about anyone but their largest companies.

We got to be the best in the industry by providing a great product *AND* supporting it.

Being successful at sales is all about building good relationship and maintaining them. Never write anyone off because they are too small. We go the extra mile for our customers all the times - sometimes we lose money, but it always pays off. If you help someone one something that may seem stupid, small, or pointless ... you never know when they may come back and drop 750K (which has happened).

They don't know that I am seriously considering a Fiesta ST in 2016. They don't know that I will be buying a house soon and may need to buy a pickup truck. I may be willing to finance a $60K F350 with them.


Originally Posted By: Noey
Originally Posted By: redhat
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Noey
Where'd you get the idea that you shouldn't have to diagnose? Accurate diagnosis is key to accurate repair. The point is, you HAD accurately diagnosed the issue, and the failure lies at least as much with your inability to communicate that effectively. You should have had the pics, and/or just taken the writer out to the car and shown him.

Pay attention here, no matter where you go in life, people will ultimately let you down if you're not willing to help them help you.


A service department should be able to diagnose a problem without the customer doing that for them. I don't really follow your thinking here.

It sounds like he DID point them in the direction of the motor mount, and got brushed off. There's no good excuse for that. Doesn't matter if he is young, old, knows exactly what is wrong with the car, or doesn't.


Exactly.


Nope. Sorry.

If you recognize weakness you compensate for it. So, if you don't trust the dealer, you absolutely take the time and the effort to hold their hand..you go out and show them the problem and you wait for them to show recognition and agreement with said issue. That way, it is both clear what needs to be done, and you are aware of that, too. Nothing gets someone's attention like competence.

If the point of the thread was to whine and get sympathy, my apologies. If the point was to deter this type of sloppy treatment, than my response is correct. If you assume someone is incompetent you make it harder for them to be that way.


So you're saying I should have walked in with a sidearm and held it to the service manager's head until he made one of the technicians fix the car?

I already did their job by diagnosing the issue. The least they should do is actually fix the darn issue.



Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
I doubt that approach would change things in this situation. The service writer made it clear from the start that he was not interested in helping him out. Trying to "hold his hand" could be seen as "telling him how to do his job," and might not produce the desired result - the car being repaired properly under warranty. On top of that, I wouldn't want to waste my time with hand holding...a Ford service department should be plenty capable of diagnosing and repairing a Focus. The issue here is more that they don't WANT to. Miller got bad service from the start, they weren't even trying.

I'd just find a competent dealer instead, which sounds like the current plan, and take my future business to them. It's a Ford, not a Suzuki, so there are plenty of alternate choices.

I think the point of the thread was to vent about a frustrating experience. Nothing wrong with that.


Yeah - when they deny it ever happens ... you know it's going to be bad from the start!

Originally Posted By: brslds
Long time reader and first time poster here. Been reading since 2012, but never had a strong notion to register till this post. I'm with Miller and he is already doing more than he should have to in order for the dealer to repair the part under warranty.


Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: Miller88

I don't understand Ford guys that just assume this is normal for automobiles.

They just keep buying Fords.

Ford = car


Very ignorant statement, there. I am not a "Ford" guy. I buy the vehicle that presents the best value. If the only serious issue I have in 47K is a bad motor mount, that's not too bad.

I could have bought a Nissan and had a failed CVT at 50K miles. I could have bought a Chrysler and had some sort of crippling electronic or transmission failure at 50K miles. I could have bought a GM product and had it out of service for 3 months while they recall the entire car. This $12000 new Ford Focus doesn't seem like a bad buy, to me.


Not ignorance at all.

My response was prompted by your statement,

"The good news is, if I buy a new Ford ... I know where I will NOT be buying it from."

The last thing I would consider would be another Ford.

And I wouldn't be looking at GM, Chrysler, or Nissan either.

Try a Toyota, Honda, or Mazda instead.

Don't want to sound like a commercial but I own three Toyotas right now and I believe you'd be pleased with a Toyota vehicle and the dealer service.

I've had nothing but normal maintenance (oil changes and tires only) with my Toyotas at 80,000, 60,000, and 30,000 miles.

Each of them still feel brand new.

400,000 miles seems to be well within reach for all of them.



It appears you are on some crusade against Ford here? A lot of Mazdas use the same bad motor mount.

The Corolla and Civic were in the running - but getting a brand new Corolla or Civic for under $18K was impossible.

Even if I *do* have to pay for the motor mounts myself, I still got much more car for the money than if I bought a Honda or Toyota.

I am not a Ford person, I but what presents the best value. This car would be a Versa had I not been laughed out of two different Nissan dealers for trying to buy a base model versa.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Typical stealership experience to me. I have had very few satisfactory interactions with them. And if you try and force them to do anything you really DO get black listed and then none of them will help.

My defense was going all in on doing my own work. We do anything here except trans rebuilds, even those we R & R them ourselves.

If you do find a good stealership then you tip them big time and hope they can keep it up. IME they are a rare bird.

I've had much better luck finding the disgruntled techs who have started their own shop. My latest find is a factory trained guy from Ford who tells great stories about the horrors of stealership service techs trying to make a living on flat rate...



The mechanic who works on my Jeep ... and ultimately stuff I can't handle on the Focus is exactly that. Used to be a lead tech for a local Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge dealer. Decided to go into business for himself.

His rates are more than reasonable. He's familiar with my Jeep and can fix anything on it in half the time as anyone else (He changed a crankshaft sensor in 10 minutes - I watched). I know the guy personally so I know he's honest.

 

[redhat]

Besides the motor mount on this Focus, what really is there in the vehicle that is so unique to Ford that'll be a problem?

4cyl 5-speed in just about any car these days is pretty cut and dry.

I'm sure it'll be on the road for a long time.

 

[chestand]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
I have found out the only reason we buy new cars is so we can have the new car smell ... and ability to buy OE parts from the manufacturer to fix stuff that should be warrantied.

It's a pretty common problem on Focii to have the hydraulic passenger motor mount fail. My Focus has started to get a bit ... vibrate-y and growl-y. Hard to explain, but the engine vibrations are transmitting into the cabin pretty good.

Exact symptoms of a bad hydraulic motor mount. Mine is a 5 speed with 47000 miles ... So, it's due for a motor mount. The hydraulic ones work great ... but they dont last that long.

I figured I'd bring it in to the dealer and get it fixed under warranty while I'm still under powertrane warranty. It is covered under the powertrane warranty.

I call the Ford dealer (I won't name names) and they say they have never heard of a Ford Focus with a bad motor mount, and that the passenger one is not hydraulic.

Whatever, I get there 8AM sharp. I'm walking around the parking lot looking at all the pickups that cost more than a small house. I see my focus move. They idled it out one side of the garage and into the other.

GREAT! I thought. They determined the motor mount to be bad quickly enough and are replacing it!

Nope. I get a call from the service manager telling my the motor mounts are in great shape and there's no vibrations at all.

I ask them how they determined it just by idling the car around. The vibrations that I experience all the time, apparently, do not exist.

He says that Focuses get "buzzy" when they get older. NO $@@@@ SHERLOCK, IT'S BECAUSE THE MOTOR MOUNTS ARE BAD!

I understand that this is a nicer part of the area, so a 25 year old with a $14K Ford Focus isn't exactly going to be your best customer ... and that they'd rather get 20 hours to do a 10 hour headgasket job on a 6.0 powerstroke, but just blowing someone off is unacceptable.

The good news is, if I buy a new Ford ... I know where I will NOT be buying it from.

So I get home and I did a bit of research. Turns out that you can actually see the motor mount fail. So, I popped the hood and took a picture. Guess what - the motor mount is collapsed, you can see the fluid trail where the fluid ran out, and the metal part that connects to the engine is directly touching the part that touches the fender. That's were my vibrations are coming from!

I called the Ford Dealer that I bought the car from. They were a bit nicer to me. I started to describe the problem and the service manager instantly said that my passenger side hydraulic motor mount collapsed and failed. I sent him pictures and a video and he said he would have a tech look at them to make sure it is bad before I drive 70 miles there for diagnostics.

... I haven't heard back from them yet. That was Saturday right before they closed at 12:00 (11:45 I sent the email) and they are closed Columbus day. I'll give them a day or two before I call again.

Anyway - here is a picture of my collapsed motor mount. If the dealer had opened the hood, they would have seen it. I can actually wiggle the engine around by hand!

Orange Circle: Where the metal part that connects to the front of the engine is touching the fender.

Red Circle: Fluid from motor mount.

If you compare to this one - this is how it's supposed to sit. Mine has clearly collapsed. Ebay


If the dealer I bought the car from does not replace it under warranty (it's likely that the first one 'blacklisted' me in OASIS) I will buy the whole set myself and replace.

Then I will send a "nice" letter, with pictures, to the first dealer and let them know that I will not be buying a Ford from them.


The statement from the service writer that he'd never heard of a Focus with a bad pass. side motor mount would have prompted me to reply with something like, "Well, that means that you're either ignorant or dishonest. Which is it?"

I've never heard of a Vega overheating...
I've never heard of Ford pickup launching spark plugs...

I don't know if service writers that make statements like that are aware of how truly stupid it makes them look to say that to someone who obviously knows different.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: redhat
Besides the motor mount on this Focus, what really is there in the vehicle that is so unique to Ford that'll be a problem?

4cyl 5-speed in just about any car these days is pretty cut and dry.

I'm sure it'll be on the road for a long time.



I live 90 miles East of you. While the car will never mechanically wear out, it'll die the same rusty death as any other compact.


Originally Posted By: chestand

The statement from the service writer that he'd never heard of a Focus with a bad pass. side motor mount would have prompted me to reply with something like, "Well, that means that you're either ignorant or dishonest. Which is it?"

I've never heard of a Vega overheating...
I've never heard of Ford pickup launching spark plugs...

I don't know if service writers that make statements like that are aware of how truly stupid it makes them look to say that to someone who obviously knows different.


I'm pretty sure that, had I called and said I had a 6.4 powerstroke still under warranty that had a problem he would have started salivated and given me gold treatment.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: chestand
I don't know if service writers that make statements like that are aware of how truly stupid it makes them look to say that to someone who obviously knows different.


Makes me think they can't be trusted. Either they don't know what they are servicing or they are willing to lie to your face. Who knows what else they might be willing to lie about.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Because of stuff like this, I started fixing our 2007 minivan myself (I won't name names either). It needed sway bar bushings every 6-8 months. And all brake pads. And two rear wheel ABS sensors...it was too much hassle to carry it to the dealer...they put up too much of a fight on stuff that had demonstrably failed.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

The good news is ... the car only has 13K more miles before the powertrane warranty is up so I won't have to worry about it before long.

Since the warranty is so useful at this point, I'm tempted to just switch to 10K OCIs now ... pretty sure if it spits a rod out, it's going to be deemed normal.

 

[redhat]

So any updates on this or are you gonna give them another day?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: redhat
So any updates on this or are you gonna give them another day?


I work in IT, so one would assume that I check my email on a fairly regular basis.

The service manager emailed me. I forgot to check my email haha.

It's getting replaced under warranty on the 25th at 730am.

 

[redhat]

Good to hear.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Downside - there's not a dunkin donuts or anything within 30 miles of that dealer. I was going to bring them coffee / donuts after if they replaced it.

 

[IndyIan]

Well, you will only be there for 20 minutes anyways, it doesn't take long to replace the mount and I'm sure they've done a few before

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: chestand

The statement from the service writer that he'd never heard of a Focus with a bad pass. side motor mount would have prompted me to reply with something like, "Well, that means that you're either ignorant or dishonest. Which is it?"

I've never heard of a Vega overheating...
I've never heard of Ford pickup launching spark plugs...

I don't know if service writers that make statements like that are aware of how truly stupid it makes them look to say that to someone who obviously knows different.



To this point - when I called the service manager where I got the car, the place that will be replacing it, I started to explain the problem with the car. I barely got "cabin vibrations" out before he suggested the passenger side motor mount has failed. He said they see it quite frequently.

 

[01rangerxl]

Glad to hear the other dealer took the problem seriously and is fixing the car. Doesn't matter if it's a Focus or a $75K diesel truck...warranty is warranty.

 

[sciphi]

I've heard of similar shenanigans being pulled for well-known issues on other makes too. It's not just a Ford issue, it's a slimy dealer issue.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: redhat
Besides the motor mount on this Focus, what really is there in the vehicle that is so unique to Ford that'll be a problem?

4cyl 5-speed in just about any car these days is pretty cut and dry.

I'm sure it'll be on the road for a long time.


You wouldn't believe the problems I had with my 1987 Ranger 4 cyl 5 speed I bought new. Traded it on an '88 S-10 and to this day never bought a Ford since.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Originally Posted By: redhat
Besides the motor mount on this Focus, what really is there in the vehicle that is so unique to Ford that'll be a problem?

4cyl 5-speed in just about any car these days is pretty cut and dry.

I'm sure it'll be on the road for a long time.


You wouldn't believe the problems I had with my 1987 Ranger 4 cyl 5 speed I bought new. Traded it on an '88 S-10 and to this day never bought a Ford since.


My parents bought an '86 Ranger 4 cyl 5 speed new, in part because my dad hated the S-10 work truck his company had. Rangers are the only pickups they have bought since.