If i back feed my breaker panel through a 220v outlet ( 50amp 6 gauge copper with a neutral ) with my generator , as long as i flip the main breakers off, i should not be sending any power out to the main lines. Am i correct?
backfeeding a breaker panel with generator
- Thread starter spasm3
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Correct, but this is prohibited for safety reasons (switching back on without unplugging the generator, or using outlets on the same line, unpeotected from overcurrent and diff.
I have seen a cheap supposedly legal thing that bolts onto the panel and is just a piece of plastic that either blocks the generator outlet breaker from being on or the mains from being on.
I forget what it was called though.
I forget what it was called though.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
If i back feed my breaker panel through a 220v outlet ( 50amp 6 gauge copper with a neutral ) with my generator , as long as i flip the main breakers off, i should not be sending any power out to the main lines. Am i correct?
Standard practice for my buddy when the power goes out. Plugs it into the dryer outlet with the main breaker turned off and feeds power to at least the fridge.
If i back feed my breaker panel through a 220v outlet ( 50amp 6 gauge copper with a neutral ) with my generator , as long as i flip the main breakers off, i should not be sending any power out to the main lines. Am i correct?
Standard practice for my buddy when the power goes out. Plugs it into the dryer outlet with the main breaker turned off and feeds power to at least the fridge.
Have consideration for the linemen up on the poles and don't do it.
Pull the meter out of the socket just to be safe. If you don't, and have a bad breaker, you could potentially put high, primary voltage (7200 volts in many cases) on "downed" power lines.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
If i back feed my breaker panel through a 220v outlet ( 50amp 6 gauge copper with a neutral ) with my generator , as long as i flip the main breakers off, i should not be sending any power out to the main lines. Am i correct?
Yes, they call those suicide cables! Male on both ends!!!
Here is what you need: http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm
From my study, I believe breakers will "throw" in either current direction(it is AC after all) as LONG AS THE BREAKER IS NOT A GFI breaker.
I would run a dedicated double pole breaker for a back feed, and 6 gauge wire it outdoors to a NEMA Generator plug.
Here is a video about the "suicide" cable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiByz1E4IBU
I PERSONALLY WOULD NEVER backfeed WITHOUT a interlock kit! Make sure you got all breakers off before you start gennny!!! For example I run 240 from a Honda 3000, 30a NEMA connector, I have to shut off the water heater/outdoor AC compressor, should they come on, it will overload and hopefully trip the double throw backfeed breaker.
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If you don't, and have a bad breaker...
I have never encountered a "bad breaker" that will not shut off. They usually get weak and trip all the time, or deteriorate and buzz, never had one that would NOT shut off, about the only way you can make that happen is snapping off the paddle lever!
If i back feed my breaker panel through a 220v outlet ( 50amp 6 gauge copper with a neutral ) with my generator , as long as i flip the main breakers off, i should not be sending any power out to the main lines. Am i correct?
Yes, they call those suicide cables! Male on both ends!!!
Here is what you need: http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm
From my study, I believe breakers will "throw" in either current direction(it is AC after all) as LONG AS THE BREAKER IS NOT A GFI breaker.
I would run a dedicated double pole breaker for a back feed, and 6 gauge wire it outdoors to a NEMA Generator plug.
Here is a video about the "suicide" cable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiByz1E4IBU
I PERSONALLY WOULD NEVER backfeed WITHOUT a interlock kit! Make sure you got all breakers off before you start gennny!!! For example I run 240 from a Honda 3000, 30a NEMA connector, I have to shut off the water heater/outdoor AC compressor, should they come on, it will overload and hopefully trip the double throw backfeed breaker.
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Quote:
If you don't, and have a bad breaker...
I have never encountered a "bad breaker" that will not shut off. They usually get weak and trip all the time, or deteriorate and buzz, never had one that would NOT shut off, about the only way you can make that happen is snapping off the paddle lever!
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Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
I have seen a cheap supposedly legal thing that bolts onto the panel and is just a piece of plastic that either blocks the generator outlet breaker from being on or the mains from being on.
I forget what it was called though.
It's called an interlock. I have only seen them made of metal. Check with your panel manufacturer - they're usually fairly inexpensive compared to a generic, Interlockkit.com
It only allows either the utility or the generator feed to be active.
FYI, you use an INLET where the generator connects.
I have seen a cheap supposedly legal thing that bolts onto the panel and is just a piece of plastic that either blocks the generator outlet breaker from being on or the mains from being on.
I forget what it was called though.
It's called an interlock. I have only seen them made of metal. Check with your panel manufacturer - they're usually fairly inexpensive compared to a generic, Interlockkit.com
It only allows either the utility or the generator feed to be active.
FYI, you use an INLET where the generator connects.
The reality is that many people do this. I do it. Linemen are trained to treat everything as hot.
People do it, but realize it's illegal. When you backfeed you have to do several things correctly or you will create a dangerous condition. It's not something you could document and leave for your wife to do if you were not home.
A plain manual transfer switch that will do 6 or more circuits is about $250.
A plain manual transfer switch that will do 6 or more circuits is about $250.
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Absolutely nothing wrong with backfeeding the breaker panel as long as you disconnect from your utility at your main. They don't want you to do this because of all the stupid people that will forget to do this.
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
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If you don't, and have a bad breaker...
I have never encountered a "bad breaker" that will not shut off. They usually get weak and trip all the time, or deteriorate and buzz, never had one that would NOT shut off, about the only way you can make that happen is snapping off the paddle lever!
Well pal, I guess you haven't been around as much as I have. I don't want to say it's common, but it happens. That's why most utilities call for a "visual open" when hooking up a genny. That's why I recommended pulling the meter. That is the simplest, easiest, and cheapest way to get a visual open in the OP's situation. I'm my case, I have a 200 amp double-throw switch just past the meter enclosure. Then 2 main breakers - 1 to the house, and 1 to the shop. If the lights go out, I wheel out the genny, hook it up to the DT switch, throw the handle, and Waa-La!!! Lights!!!
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Quote:
If you don't, and have a bad breaker...
I have never encountered a "bad breaker" that will not shut off. They usually get weak and trip all the time, or deteriorate and buzz, never had one that would NOT shut off, about the only way you can make that happen is snapping off the paddle lever!
Well pal, I guess you haven't been around as much as I have. I don't want to say it's common, but it happens. That's why most utilities call for a "visual open" when hooking up a genny. That's why I recommended pulling the meter. That is the simplest, easiest, and cheapest way to get a visual open in the OP's situation. I'm my case, I have a 200 amp double-throw switch just past the meter enclosure. Then 2 main breakers - 1 to the house, and 1 to the shop. If the lights go out, I wheel out the genny, hook it up to the DT switch, throw the handle, and Waa-La!!! Lights!!!
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
The reality is that many people do this. I do it. Linemen are trained to treat everything as hot.
but someone trying to mess with a downed line in his or her yard isn't a linemen, Sparky.
The reality is that many people do this. I do it. Linemen are trained to treat everything as hot.
but someone trying to mess with a downed line in his or her yard isn't a linemen, Sparky.
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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
The reality is that many people do this. I do it. Linemen are trained to treat everything as hot.
but someone trying to mess with a downed line in his or her yard isn't a linemen, Sparky.
There's very little chance the gen will back feed all the load on the feeder. It'll trip the breaker.
But if you want to worry, keep worrying. An asteroid may kill us all. Maybe a toilet seat will fall from space and take you out.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
The reality is that many people do this. I do it. Linemen are trained to treat everything as hot.
but someone trying to mess with a downed line in his or her yard isn't a linemen, Sparky.
There's very little chance the gen will back feed all the load on the feeder. It'll trip the breaker.
But if you want to worry, keep worrying. An asteroid may kill us all. Maybe a toilet seat will fall from space and take you out.
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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
The reality is that many people do this. I do it. Linemen are trained to treat everything as hot.
but someone trying to mess with a downed line in his or her yard isn't a linemen, Sparky.
No they're just stupid. Everyone has to go somehow.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
The reality is that many people do this. I do it. Linemen are trained to treat everything as hot.
but someone trying to mess with a downed line in his or her yard isn't a linemen, Sparky.
No they're just stupid. Everyone has to go somehow.
Originally Posted By: Donald
It's not something you could document and leave for your wife to do if you were not home.
A plain manual transfer switch that will do 6 or more circuits is about $250.
Step 1 throw off main breaker.
Step 2. Start generator
Step 3. Turn on gen breaker
It's not something you could document and leave for your wife to do if you were not home.
A plain manual transfer switch that will do 6 or more circuits is about $250.
Step 1 throw off main breaker.
Step 2. Start generator
Step 3. Turn on gen breaker
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Donald
It's not something you could document and leave for your wife to do if you were not home.
A plain manual transfer switch that will do 6 or more circuits is about $250.
Step 1 throw off main breaker.
Step 2. Start generator
Step 3. Turn on gen breaker
To turn off the generator and go back to utility power after power to the neighborhood comes back on:
Step 4. Turn off the gen breaker.
Step 5. Turn off the generator, and take suicide cord into house.
Step 6. Remove gorilla duct tape from main breaker, and turn on the main breaker.
I would add to Step 1. after turning off main breaker place a strip of gorilla duct tape over main breaker lever, and take suicide cord outside to connect generator.
Originally Posted By: Donald
It's not something you could document and leave for your wife to do if you were not home.
A plain manual transfer switch that will do 6 or more circuits is about $250.
Step 1 throw off main breaker.
Step 2. Start generator
Step 3. Turn on gen breaker
To turn off the generator and go back to utility power after power to the neighborhood comes back on:
Step 4. Turn off the gen breaker.
Step 5. Turn off the generator, and take suicide cord into house.
Step 6. Remove gorilla duct tape from main breaker, and turn on the main breaker.
I would add to Step 1. after turning off main breaker place a strip of gorilla duct tape over main breaker lever, and take suicide cord outside to connect generator.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
The reality is that many people do this. I do it. Linemen are trained to treat everything as hot.
I have been backfeeding for years through my welder outlet. However the main always, repeat ALWAYS, has to be thrown to the off position first. If you are unsure of yourself, don't do it. Otherwise, it works fine.
The reality is that many people do this. I do it. Linemen are trained to treat everything as hot.
I have been backfeeding for years through my welder outlet. However the main always, repeat ALWAYS, has to be thrown to the off position first. If you are unsure of yourself, don't do it. Otherwise, it works fine.
BTW, it is correct to NEVER expect anyone not knowledgeable enough to figure out this stuff on there own, to follow any list of the order that these things must be done.
It is just too darn dangerous to have them try it.
Why do you think it is called a suicide cord? If the connection of plugging in the cord (actual act of plugging it in) is done AFTER the generator is running the male end is hot and exposed, and the potential is there to kill someone.
It is just too darn dangerous to have them try it.
Why do you think it is called a suicide cord? If the connection of plugging in the cord (actual act of plugging it in) is done AFTER the generator is running the male end is hot and exposed, and the potential is there to kill someone.
1) pull meter
2) shut main off
3) shut all breakers including gen feed
4) connect jumper(homicide/suicide cord)
5) check gen and start.
6) throw gen feed and start adding load(circuits). NEVER TURN MAIN ON.
Shutdown
1) shed loads
2) idle down gen, then shutdown gen
3) turn off gen feed breaker.
4) disconnect jumper
5) reconnect line power (meter)
6) turn main on
7) turn all normal circuits
Harvey
2) shut main off
3) shut all breakers including gen feed
4) connect jumper(homicide/suicide cord)
5) check gen and start.
6) throw gen feed and start adding load(circuits). NEVER TURN MAIN ON.
Shutdown
1) shed loads
2) idle down gen, then shutdown gen
3) turn off gen feed breaker.
4) disconnect jumper
5) reconnect line power (meter)
6) turn main on
7) turn all normal circuits
Harvey
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