If he didn't see that carbs were dead even 20 years ago, then he must have had his head very, very far in the sand. Carbs were already a niche market.
Automotive engineers and oil
- Thread starter Moondawg
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I have friends working with truck diesel engine design, maybe not exaktly the same but, yes, they know their tribology. Total quality ie. economy, is key, and the engines must run long times between services. It's a good thing if service items are phased so that as many service points as possible are due at the same time an the longest possible service intervals at the lowest total cost possible.
You have -lots- of other requirements to deal with, emissions, cold/hot/dusty/dry/wet/salty/diff altitudes environments, driveability, power/torque/fuel consumtion, serviceability/accessability, weight/dimensions, vibrations, availabel materials, sub contractors, etc etc.
So for an engine that has to meet say Euro6/12 emissions, you have sooome work to make it better than the competition, cheaper than the previous engine, easier to service, and with a longer life.
They design carefully and then run lots of tests to verify design decisions. At those tests, I hear that they use say ACEA oils for the vehicle category knowing that users will use standard oils.
They are picky about ACEA category but not trying to outsmart standards like we do in here; "Oh, i need the best A3/B3 oil"
But maybe passenger car makers are more lax about the engine...
You have -lots- of other requirements to deal with, emissions, cold/hot/dusty/dry/wet/salty/diff altitudes environments, driveability, power/torque/fuel consumtion, serviceability/accessability, weight/dimensions, vibrations, availabel materials, sub contractors, etc etc.
So for an engine that has to meet say Euro6/12 emissions, you have sooome work to make it better than the competition, cheaper than the previous engine, easier to service, and with a longer life.
They design carefully and then run lots of tests to verify design decisions. At those tests, I hear that they use say ACEA oils for the vehicle category knowing that users will use standard oils.
They are picky about ACEA category but not trying to outsmart standards like we do in here; "Oh, i need the best A3/B3 oil"
But maybe passenger car makers are more lax about the engine...
Originally Posted By: SR5
I don't know what the others were saying or are planning to do. But as my cars have improved, I have relaxed my margin for error over the years.
Before I used 20W50, 20W60 mineral oil or 10W60 synthetic. But this was driving Carb'd cars in hot summer conditions.
With modern fuel injection I'm using 10W40 semi-synthetic. But thinking about 5W40, 0W40 or 5W30 full synthetics next. All A3/B4
If this keeps up, I'll soon be wearing tie-dye and beads.
We'll make a "thinny" out of you yet!
I don't know what the others were saying or are planning to do. But as my cars have improved, I have relaxed my margin for error over the years.
Before I used 20W50, 20W60 mineral oil or 10W60 synthetic. But this was driving Carb'd cars in hot summer conditions.
With modern fuel injection I'm using 10W40 semi-synthetic. But thinking about 5W40, 0W40 or 5W30 full synthetics next. All A3/B4
If this keeps up, I'll soon be wearing tie-dye and beads.
We'll make a "thinny" out of you yet!
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: SR5
I don't know what the others were saying or are planning to do. But as my cars have improved, I have relaxed my margin for error over the years.
Before I used 20W50, 20W60 mineral oil or 10W60 synthetic. But this was driving Carb'd cars in hot summer conditions.
With modern fuel injection I'm using 10W40 semi-synthetic. But thinking about 5W40, 0W40 or 5W30 full synthetics next. All A3/B4
If this keeps up, I'll soon be wearing tie-dye and beads.
We'll make a "thinny" out of you yet!
Not too thin I hope.
Fear is the path to the dark side.
And fools go where angels fear to tread.
Originally Posted By: SR5
I don't know what the others were saying or are planning to do. But as my cars have improved, I have relaxed my margin for error over the years.
Before I used 20W50, 20W60 mineral oil or 10W60 synthetic. But this was driving Carb'd cars in hot summer conditions.
With modern fuel injection I'm using 10W40 semi-synthetic. But thinking about 5W40, 0W40 or 5W30 full synthetics next. All A3/B4
If this keeps up, I'll soon be wearing tie-dye and beads.
We'll make a "thinny" out of you yet!
Not too thin I hope.
Fear is the path to the dark side.
And fools go where angels fear to tread.
Originally Posted By: Garak
If he didn't see that carbs were dead even 20 years ago, then he must have had his head very, very far in the sand. Carbs were already a niche market.
That niche market was rather strong as boomers flocked back to the carb cars of their youth during the 1996-2007 classic/muscle car boom. I don't know if that has continued as strong the past 8 years. Someone has to make/service carbs for those cars.
If he didn't see that carbs were dead even 20 years ago, then he must have had his head very, very far in the sand. Carbs were already a niche market.
That niche market was rather strong as boomers flocked back to the carb cars of their youth during the 1996-2007 classic/muscle car boom. I don't know if that has continued as strong the past 8 years. Someone has to make/service carbs for those cars.
Originally Posted By: Ducman
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: SR5
I don't know what the others were saying or are planning to do. But as my cars have improved, I have relaxed my margin for error over the years.
Before I used 20W50, 20W60 mineral oil or 10W60 synthetic. But this was driving Carb'd cars in hot summer conditions.
With modern fuel injection I'm using 10W40 semi-synthetic. But thinking about 5W40, 0W40 or 5W30 full synthetics next. All A3/B4
If this keeps up, I'll soon be wearing tie-dye and beads.
We'll make a "thinny" out of you yet!
Not too thin I hope.
Fear is the path to the dark side.
And fools go where angels fear to tread.
How about we all meet up and be friends at 5W-30, ILSAC for the thinnies, A3/B4 for the thickies.
Then we can all hold hands and sing Kumbayah.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: SR5
I don't know what the others were saying or are planning to do. But as my cars have improved, I have relaxed my margin for error over the years.
Before I used 20W50, 20W60 mineral oil or 10W60 synthetic. But this was driving Carb'd cars in hot summer conditions.
With modern fuel injection I'm using 10W40 semi-synthetic. But thinking about 5W40, 0W40 or 5W30 full synthetics next. All A3/B4
If this keeps up, I'll soon be wearing tie-dye and beads.
We'll make a "thinny" out of you yet!
Not too thin I hope.
Fear is the path to the dark side.
And fools go where angels fear to tread.
How about we all meet up and be friends at 5W-30, ILSAC for the thinnies, A3/B4 for the thickies.
Then we can all hold hands and sing Kumbayah.
A Dingo stole my baby!
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: Ducman
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: SR5
I don't know what the others were saying or are planning to do. But as my cars have improved, I have relaxed my margin for error over the years.
Before I used 20W50, 20W60 mineral oil or 10W60 synthetic. But this was driving Carb'd cars in hot summer conditions.
With modern fuel injection I'm using 10W40 semi-synthetic. But thinking about 5W40, 0W40 or 5W30 full synthetics next. All A3/B4
If this keeps up, I'll soon be wearing tie-dye and beads.
We'll make a "thinny" out of you yet!
Not too thin I hope.
Fear is the path to the dark side.
And fools go where angels fear to tread.
How about we all meet up and be friends at 5W-30, ILSAC for the thinnies, A3/B4 for the thickies.
Then we can all hold hands and sing Kumbayah.
I hate to sound snobbish.
But I draw the line at ILSAC 10w-30's.
Your ILSAC 5w-30's are way too thin for me and with their high NOACK and excessive VII's I feel like I could catch some sort of nasty disease.
Originally Posted By: Ducman
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: SR5
I don't know what the others were saying or are planning to do. But as my cars have improved, I have relaxed my margin for error over the years.
Before I used 20W50, 20W60 mineral oil or 10W60 synthetic. But this was driving Carb'd cars in hot summer conditions.
With modern fuel injection I'm using 10W40 semi-synthetic. But thinking about 5W40, 0W40 or 5W30 full synthetics next. All A3/B4
If this keeps up, I'll soon be wearing tie-dye and beads.
We'll make a "thinny" out of you yet!
Not too thin I hope.
Fear is the path to the dark side.
And fools go where angels fear to tread.
How about we all meet up and be friends at 5W-30, ILSAC for the thinnies, A3/B4 for the thickies.
Then we can all hold hands and sing Kumbayah.
I hate to sound snobbish.
But I draw the line at ILSAC 10w-30's.
Your ILSAC 5w-30's are way too thin for me and with their high NOACK and excessive VII's I feel like I could catch some sort of nasty disease.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
That niche market was rather strong as boomers flocked back to the carb cars of their youth during the 1996-2007 classic/muscle car boom.
Yes, but acting as if fuel injection wasn't the wave of the future was silly. Heck, the market for tuning chips has almost certainly outstripped the market for carbs, when 20 years ago, chips were virtually unknown.
That niche market was rather strong as boomers flocked back to the carb cars of their youth during the 1996-2007 classic/muscle car boom.
Yes, but acting as if fuel injection wasn't the wave of the future was silly. Heck, the market for tuning chips has almost certainly outstripped the market for carbs, when 20 years ago, chips were virtually unknown.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Engines are not designed around any given viscosity grade.
Almost any engine will live a very long life on just about any viscosity grade you might care to use.
There are plenty of engines capable of 250K on a 0W-20 grade oil for which a 5W-40 is recommended in other markets.
Either way, engine life will not be compromised.
You can use thicker or thinner oil in most any engine as you see fit.
The engine isn't going to suffer either way.
Engines aren't nearly as sensitive to viscosity grade as some seem to think.
I do agree.
Engines are not designed around any given viscosity grade.
Almost any engine will live a very long life on just about any viscosity grade you might care to use.
There are plenty of engines capable of 250K on a 0W-20 grade oil for which a 5W-40 is recommended in other markets.
Either way, engine life will not be compromised.
You can use thicker or thinner oil in most any engine as you see fit.
The engine isn't going to suffer either way.
Engines aren't nearly as sensitive to viscosity grade as some seem to think.
I do agree.
Since motor oil is a commodity and one that is very well regulated, I highly doubt that it takes more than a single slide on a corporate presentation. Motor oil will receive more attention when the engine being designed requires a special spec or not commonly available grade and the oil producer will most likely get involved in those rare instances.
I'm sure that at the detailed level there is much more work and research done by the team responsible for the lubrication, but all of it is done in concert and with the big picture in mind that is the engine.
Nobody designs their engine around the oil, nobody.
I'm sure that at the detailed level there is much more work and research done by the team responsible for the lubrication, but all of it is done in concert and with the big picture in mind that is the engine.
Nobody designs their engine around the oil, nobody.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: Garak
If he didn't see that carbs were dead even 20 years ago, then he must have had his head very, very far in the sand. Carbs were already a niche market.
That niche market was rather strong as boomers flocked back to the carb cars of their youth during the 1996-2007 classic/muscle car boom. I don't know if that has continued as strong the past 8 years. Someone has to make/service carbs for those cars.
There are plenty good sources of reman and new carbs for muscle motors. There are other uses too.
But the phenomena is now just starting to really turn. Muscle motors are slowly being equipped with after market EFI now that there are three or four pretty reliable companies making retrofit kits.
The thing that kept the carbs alive and well was the adoption of broadband O2 sensors and dash gauges. It helps to be able to know what the mixture rate/ratio is at any given load and RPM... With that info readily available, it's possible to tune a carb pretty tight and get near FI mileage and throttle response
Originally Posted By: Garak
If he didn't see that carbs were dead even 20 years ago, then he must have had his head very, very far in the sand. Carbs were already a niche market.
That niche market was rather strong as boomers flocked back to the carb cars of their youth during the 1996-2007 classic/muscle car boom. I don't know if that has continued as strong the past 8 years. Someone has to make/service carbs for those cars.
There are plenty good sources of reman and new carbs for muscle motors. There are other uses too.
But the phenomena is now just starting to really turn. Muscle motors are slowly being equipped with after market EFI now that there are three or four pretty reliable companies making retrofit kits.
The thing that kept the carbs alive and well was the adoption of broadband O2 sensors and dash gauges. It helps to be able to know what the mixture rate/ratio is at any given load and RPM... With that info readily available, it's possible to tune a carb pretty tight and get near FI mileage and throttle response
I'm well aware of that. I bought one, a Holley in fact, for my old F-150. It has a nice little 390 CFM four barrel. Ironically, a local mechanic I know suggested I should convert it to fuel injection. No, I don't need that much of a project.
CT8; We have feral pigs immigrating north from Texas and Georgia. Can Cannis Dingo be far behind?
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