Automotive Battery Voltage -What is ur reading?

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Your vehicle isn't going to know it's an AGM battery so it will charge it to a Lead Acid resting voltage of 12.6 - 12.7 instead of right to the 12.8, not a big deal... Your charger also puts out low amperage so if you really want to keep the AGM topped off you should use an automatic AGM rated charger with at least 20 amps. This is what Oddesey recommends for their AGM batteries. Anything less than 20 amps will have a hard time getting the battery truly full because these batteries like amps but want the voltage kept at 14.7v or less as it's charging. You should also use a charger that once charged balances the cells over a long period of time (8-14 hours) like the Oddesey chargers do.
 
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@SteveC Thanks for the info.

Just installed the Bosch 24F AGM measured 13.1V
Didn't start on the 1st start/button push. Why?
Tried a 2nd time and it started. No crank,crank crank or struggling sound.
Toyota posted on the navigation screen " Updating system do not turn OFF"
All previous navigation map destinations, radio stations and clock displayed correctly. No adjustment needed.
Nice job Toyota.
Drove local roads + highway for 30 minutes.
Parked the car, popped the hood and the AGM is @12.89V
 
The first time not starting is normal on some vehicles with push button start after the battery has been changed. I think it's a safety so that when the battery is first connected it doesn't automatically crank over should there be some issue with the start/stop button. (Technician / do-it-yourselfer safety)

When I got my Oddesey battery it was 12.83 and I watched the guy take it off the charging maintenance wire sitting on the shelf with others. Some variation is ok. AGM more or less is 12.8 when fully charged but the more you drive it the more the smart charging system might bring it down further. Not sure because each charging system is different and I'm not sure if Toyota has an AGM mode built into their smart charging system. I know it didn't exist on the Journey as it would regularly drop the voltage down to below 12.8 which is why I'd plug it in nightly.
 
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@StevieC Thank for ur comments. It have been helpful. I just ordered a Solar BA-9 battery tester and will try it on my Toyota OE battery.

The off-shelf Bosch measured 12.87V (not on a battery maintainer @Pepboys)
30 minute drive and it measured 12.89V. I should be happy. :-)
 
I dont understand why a agm wont charge up fully if on a 14.2v output alternator? Since alternator voltage is over the 12.8v for full agm then doesnt it mean that charging is taking place?
 
The old OE Toyota de-sulphated over the Xmas holiday is perfectly fine.

The Solar BA9 conductance battery tester arrived and here are the results:

5 yr OE Toyota 24F rated 582CCA ->539 & 5.86mohm
10 yr OE Lexus 35 rated 585CCA(???)-> 314 & 9.91mohm
New Bosch AGM 24F rated 710CCA-> 582 & 4.21mohm

Bottom line:
A DVM only tells a partial story. If you have weak or dead cells and doesn't tell u anything else.

I wish I knew about the BA7 earlier and delayed my Bosch purchase.

It is a nice tool and will diagnose starting & charging components of your car.
 
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Patrick0525
New Bosch AGM 24F rated 710CCA-> 582 & 4.21mohm

That's kind of surprising, isn't it?


Yepp
Add the following:

Lawn Tractor 230CCA -> 295 & 10.69mohm
soc (state of charge)& soh (state of health) are 100%

OE Toyota soh 90%
OE Lexus soh 54% ( going to return as core )
I
 
Originally Posted by slybunda
I dont understand why a agm wont charge up fully if on a 14.2v output alternator? Since alternator voltage is over the 12.8v for full agm then doesnt it mean that charging is taking place?

They like a lot of amps to be pushed in which is why folks like Odyssey recommend a 20amp charger or better to fully charge them.
 
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Patrick0525
New Bosch AGM 24F rated 710CCA-> 582 & 4.21mohm

That's kind of surprising, isn't it?


Measurements are very sensitive to both halves of the clamps being attached. They might not have been....

At such low impedance there's no reason to have such low ccw unless the voltage was reading low. I=V/R
 
Originally Posted by JHZR2
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Patrick0525
New Bosch AGM 24F rated 710CCA-> 582 & 4.21mohm

That's kind of surprising, isn't it?


Measurements are very sensitive to both halves of the clamps being attached. They might not have been....

At such low impedance there's no reason to have such low ccw unless the voltage was reading low. I=V/R


Your suggestion maybe correct.
The battery tester's clamp were clamped onto the cars's clamp and not the naked battery posts. This was an in-car test. When the weather breaks, I will do an out-car tests. Thanks.
 
my conductance tester does give lower results if clamped onto the cars battery clamps vs direct to battery posts.
 
@slybuna I have a Solar BA9 which model do you have? Lower results means what? Lower observed CCA rating?
Does your model have out car and in car capability?

@JHZR2 I am going to go with your comment: I = V/R and slybunda's battery tester comment on lower results observation.

What I did Saturday into Sunday:
At the same time, the OE Toyota (CCA 585) and Bosch AGM (CCA 710) were both put on separate Battery Minder 12117 for at least 12+ hrs and both went into float mode (green light flashing). I did the measurement and both were around 13.500V. (actually it was around +- 50 millivolt).


OE Toyota out-car, the BA9 measured 539 CCA and 5.86 milliohm
New Bosch AGM in-car, the BA9 measured 582CCA and 4.21 milliohm

Assume both have reached an equivalent Voltage

I * R(OE Toyota) = I * R(Bosch AGM)
Solve for I (Bosch AGM)


(539 * 5.86) / 4.21 = 750 CCA the battery is rated for 710 CCA

@JHZR2 You are probably right.
The Solar BA9 does NOT have out car & in car testing mode. Some other manufactures do!
This may explain the discrepancy between measured and the 710 CCA rating.


Will test this weekend.
 
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I tried the calculation on the lawn tractor which was on the Battery Minder for two weeks but has it been off it for at least two days.


BA9 Measurements(out-car):
Lawn Tractor rated 230 CCA -> BA9 measured 295 CCA & 10.69milliohm
It also said soc & soh are 100%


Both tractor and OE Toyota are flooded cell (SLI).

The Calculation
(539 * 5.86) / 10.89 = 290 CCA the battery is rated for 230 CCA


The BA9 measured 295 CCA and my calculation has a 290 CCA value.
A good agreement and close enough!

Thank you @JHZR2 and @slybuna for your insight and sharing.
 
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In order to have an honest comparison, all the voltages posted should have been measured with the same voltometer.Battery volts is a variable , but so is the volt meter accurancy.
 
Originally Posted by Panos
In order to have an honest comparison, all the voltages posted should have been measured with the same voltometer.Battery volts is a variable , but so is the volt meter accurancy.


All volt measurements were posted with the same Fluke 12 DVM. I never posted BA9 voltage readings.
I bought the Fluke in the mid 1980's for approx $80. It looks like it has +-0.9% accuracy DC or +- 135 millivolt @13.5V

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-12-Multimeter-with-Leads-and-Case-/283341833075
 
Voltage is electrical pressure.

Will a charger seeking 14.2v be able to fully recharge a healthy battery. Yes. it will just take longer than one seeking to bring and hold the battery at 14.7v.

Now an aged battery, with a charing source seeking only 14.2, will it just take longer, well yes, but 14.2 might never be ale to fully recharge it either, higher electrical pressure required to top it up.

odyssey AGM batteries, are thin plate pure lead, TPPL, construction, they have HUGE CCA figures and can also be deeply cycled.

When they are deeply cycled, Odyssey recommends the charging source be able to provide NO LESS than 40 amps per 100Ah of battery capacity( the PC2150 is a group 31 at 100AH capacity, 1150CCA).

It is important to not folow the traditional LOW and slow trickle charge mentality on a deeply dischrged AGM, If one is looking to keep it performing as well as possible for as long as possible, and considering th rather large price tag of these AGMs, I would hope that someone would do what is required to meet their charging requirements.

NOw that is on a deply cycled battery. An Odyssey AGM as a starting battery, that is never discharged very far, the electical pressures are much lss important. Do not fear the fact that an alternator only goes as high as 14.2v where Odyssey says 14.7. if the battery is never discharged much the amperage reqired to intiially seek then hold 14.2 vs 14.7 will not be significant.

There are Very few charging sources which will meet Odyssey's recharge regimen on their own group 31. This battery acording to their own recomendations whe ndischarged to 50% or deper needs NO less than a 40 amp charger applied until battery voltage at the terminals reached 14.7. 14.7v is then to be held for 4 more hours. during this 4 hours amperage required to maintain 14.7v will taper to around 0.5 amps, and at this point the battery should be fully charged. but it might tke 6 hours for amperage to taper to 0.5% of the 100AH group 31 capacity.

THE ONLY way to determine full charge on an AGM battery is by bringing the battery to absorption voltage and holding it there until amps taper to 0.5% of the 20hr Ah capacity of the battery. If you cannot see the amperage, if your charger does not allow you to hold the voltage at 14.7v as long as required, well yhe battery is simply NOT fully charged unless amps required to maintain mid 14.0v range tapers to 0.5% of capacity, and 14.7v assumes a battery tempreature of 77F. Colder temps require higher voltages, hotter require lower.

AGM is the battery marketers newest favorite, as the consuming public believes them to be superior batteries, and they can be, but they are not immune to the abuse which degrades flooded lead acid batteries.

Most people shop on price, and AGMs have been falling in price significantly in the last few years. Does the cheapo AGM compared to a TPPL AGM like Odyssey or Northstar. no not even close. A low $$ AG will have slightly elevated CCA figures in most cases, they will have lower self discharge, and they should not offgass and cause terminal corrosion from being bathed in a sulfuric acid mist that occurs when a flooded battery is being held in the 14.0+ range. They should also be able to start the vehicle at a lower state of charge compared to the same group size flooded battery.

but they are not imune to chronic undercharging, and if they are intentionally deeply cycled, they really need a higher amp chargeing source than most garage chargers can provide, and getting them truly full is even more important.

Even the lesser$$ AGMS will benefit from higher recharging amperage, but osr lower $$ AGM batteries say to not exceed a 30% charge rate, whereas Odyssey says no less than 40%. Lifeline AGM, who make pretty much the best Deepcycle AGM batteries say No less than 20% when deeply cycled, and there are dozens of off griders who bought these batteries, feed them only low and slow solar only rechres and petulantly stop their feet when the battery capacity has declined much further than expected on their top of the line expensive AGM batteries.

Engine starting batteries have a cakewalk of a job in comparison to a daily deeply cycled battery, and their acceptable charging voltages and the amperage required to reach those voltages, and the durations at which higher voltages are held, are much less imortant than on a daily deeply cycled battery.

But ALL lead acid batteries always want to be fully recharged, and kept cool.

Truly fully rechrging a battery requires a lot more time than people expect, and this is whe nit is held at higher voltages.

A battery Nearly fully charged does not require many amps to be held at higher voltage, and many vehicles today are intentionally keeping the battery discharged low enough that it can accept higher voltages, when the voltage regulator tells the alternator to make enough amperage to bring system voltage up higher. The VRs basically ask for higher voltage when letting off the gas or braking, and this can somewhat help MPGs, but at the cost of battery longevity, as the battery always ants to be fully charged.

Such vehicle batteries would still benefit from being regularly top charged by a plug in charging source, but few of them are going to seek high engough voltage fr long enough to actually top charge the battery, as each battery will be different and change as it ages and the different temperatures it is when being charged, and the green light full chrge indicator on so called 'smart' chargers' is simply wrong, and mocks the end user who believes it. But ignorance is bliss, and the equipment and knowledge and effort required to actually have a battery reach a true full charge might not be worth the expenditure, compared to simply replacing the battery more often.

All lead acid batteries want to be returned to full charge ASAP, and it takes no less than 3.5 hours to go from 80% charged to 100% charged. it does not matter if you have a 300 amp alternator. The battery accepts only as much amperage it wants at the electrical pressure reaching the battery terminals and room temperature batteries should not spend much time at voltages above 14.8v.

Since this thread is about full charge resting voltage, my group 27 Northstar AGM rests at 13.06v, at 5 years of age and over 1000 deep cycles. It would NOT rest above 12.84v until I discharged it to 50% and then fed it 25+ amps until amps tapered to 0.45 at 14.7v, which is 0.5% of its 90Ah rated capacity. There is NO way this battery would still be going if I could not hold 14.7v until amps tapered to this low level.

All my charging sources, I can manually control the voltage, and all of them have digital ammeters so I can see how long to hold these high absorption voltages as I try hard to reach a true 100% state of charge after each discharge, whether it be the extremely minor anount required to start my engine, or the 25 Ah of cpacity required to run a small 12vDC fridge overnight in 80F ambients.

And regarding short trip driving, I did an experiment.

When this Northstar AGM battery was newer, if I held it at 14.7v for long enough, amps would taper to 0.0x amps. x as my ammeters cannot accurately read amperage below this. So when this battery was absolutely chock full, and I would start me engine, an my alternator would be commanded to seek 14.7v. So when amps tapered back to 0.0x at 14.7v, that energy whuch had been used to start the engine had been replaced. How long did this take? 45 seconds. 45 seconds of 14.7v replaced the energy into the battery that was used to start the engine. of couse not every vehicle seeks 14.7v after engine starting, and almost no vehicle is starting from a truly 100% charged battery, but the time it takes to return that which the starter motor required to start the engine, well it takes much less time than most people will tell you, especially on a modern fuel injected engine in mild ambient temperatures.

But few vehicle carging systems care about battery longevity, and do not recharge it fully ASAP. Parasitic draws with the engine off are higher, and some of the vehices today are using the alternator and starter as a very inefficient quasi regenerative braking system, which is very hard on the battery.

No lead acid battery is imune to living at a shronically undercharged state. Those deep cycling them and dep cycle battery makers are well aware of the damage incurred by living their life at a partial state of charge, and they are now incorporating carbon in to th plate paste in attempts to reduce the build up of capacity reducing hardened sulfation. One of the makers of these Carbon foam AGMbatteries is Firefly Oasis, and they come in a group 31 size for about 450$
 
Originally Posted by Patrick0525
Originally Posted by Panos
In order to have an honest comparison, all the voltages posted should have been measured with the same voltometer.Battery volts is a variable , but so is the volt meter accurancy.


All volt measurements were posted with the same Fluke 12 DVM. I never posted BA9 voltage readings.
I bought the Fluke in the mid 1980's for approx $80. It looks like it has +-0.9% accuracy DC or +- 135 millivolt @13.5V

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-12-Multimeter-with-Leads-and-Case-/283341833075


I was referring to the whole thread and all the posters, not your voltages. One poster would measure 12,55 and another 12,47 and have the exact same battery voltage due to the gauge accuracy difference.
 
Diehard Platinum (Odyssey 34/78) dated Dec 2013 after sitting overnight voltage @ 12.3v. CCA test w/ Solar BA7 tester @ 665 CCA. Not bad for 5 years since most flooded batteries in Hawaii lasts 3 years.
 
Checked the voltage at the battery on my Sierra. This is the OEM battery and the truck was purchased new in October 2013 and has 150,000 miles. Measured 12.2V and it has been sitting for almost 2 weeks (have a work car). I'm gonna try to check it again next time I take the truck out for a trip. Will check the next morning so the battery has time to rest after being fully charged.
 
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