Auto-Rx 250,000 Civic & leaking main seal ???

[Crusader]

I have 4 bottles of Auto-Rx on order and my main goal is to stop a leaking rear main seal on my 93 Civic with 250,000 miles. Leaking about a half a quart in 150 miles but not always at this rate. Oil is noticeable on the back of the vehicle when this happens. This never happens when I drive it but always when my wife drives it long distances. ???

Last spring I replaced the timing belt as well as the crank and cam seals. Those surfaces looked fine and there was no excessive leaking or weeping. Just slight presense of oil but nothing that would soak the timing belt or get it wet. Main seal area did look a bit wet.

So is it best to use dino 5w-30 oil or something heavier such as a 10w-30? This Civic originally called for 5w-30 energy conserving oil. I was thinking the 5w-30 would be best to encourage more blow by thus more Auto-Rx making it to the main seal leak - thus quicker results from the product? What about using a diesel rated oil in the 15w-40 range? I was actually going to switch to Rotella T syn 5w-40 Group 3 oil in all my vehicles but I will wait until the Auto-Rx program is done. I know the instruction say no to synthetic oil however the way I understand it this not really a true synthetic?

So would Super Tech Dino 5w-30 be best or Havoline of the same weight? HDEO 15w-40?

 

[Shelby]

As far as I know there has never been a statement by Autorx not to use synthetic oils, however they always maintain cheap dyno oil is best. Whatever oil you use I think you will remove any sludge from yuor engine safely. I kinda doubt it is going to fix a seal that's leaking that bad, but it wont hurt to try i guess. After your ARX treatment I'd try using a stop leak treatment. I can't remember which one I used, i think it was CD2, but it lasted a good long while. My van with a 20 year old engine had it's knock fixed by using a combo of Autorx/MMO, but it still leaked at the valve cover. The stop leak helped somewhat, but bottom line if it's leaking like yours or mine is, only way to stop it is change the gasket/seal. Did you have tranny work?

 

[TurboJim]

"Leaking about a half a quart in 150 miles but not always at this rate."

With that kind of consumption I'd be using the cheapest oil possible until you can get a handle on the problem. My preference would be 5W-30 because a thinner oil is going to flow better.

Have you changed your PVC valve lately? If not I'd start there first then proceed with your ARX treatments.

I'm not as enthused with stop leak products as Shelby is. If ARX isn't going to solve the problem then I think you're looking at replacing the seal or just living with it.

 

[DINO_NO]

I had a 93 civic, loved that thing.
I got it all the way to 310k before I sold it with no problems. If you fix that leak, you will be on your way to a long engine life.

 

[Crusader]

Great point on the PVC valve. I will change that ASAP. Crank case blow by could be the issue. When I ran some 20w-50 oil in the car last year consumption really seemed drop off dramatically. Never had to pull or service the tyranny or the engine except for head gasket, timing belts, water pumps and a igniter module last year. Civic still produces good power not quite what it was new but really not far from it. Gets well over 32 mpg in all types of driving close to 40 mpg when you drive like a granny.

If Auto-Rx doesn't stop the leak and or a heavier viscosity oil doesn't stop it . . . oh well I guess I get to cuss & swear while I separate the engine from the transmission to get to the seal.

I'm expecting to get well over 500,000 miles or more on the car without an engine overhaul. Auto tyranny is holding up well with no issues. Still shifts well and OD locks up when it should. Best car I've ever owned. In fact I'm looking for another Civic of this generation used and it's next to impossible to find them in any decent shape.

I will post Auto-Rx results in the next month or so. Car is driven 15,000+ miles each year. I think I will do a compression test before and after.

 

[Crusader]

FWIW update: Not to start a riot but I decided to extend the Auto-Rx Cycle on my Civic as well. I'm at 2500 miles now into the cleaning cycle. *See my other post for my extended Toyota cleaning plan.* And I did change out the oil filter [Puralotor Premium] at 1500 miles. I started with 5w-30 Super Tech dino and I did add a few ounces of older Valvoline Synpower. Due to the main seal leak I did add nearly 20 ounces of Delo 400 HDEO and 6 ounce of Chevron SAE 30wt. We took a 1200 mile trip this last weekend and on nearly every hill we could smell oil fumes that driped on the exhaust via the rear main seal. I figure long runs at hwy speed on a warm engine will really help Auto-rx do it's thing vs. the usual cold start and 50 mile a day round trip it normally sees.

The monkey wrench in the plan is the possibility of leaking head gasket due to small amounts of coolant loss along with occasional runs near the red on the temp gauge. I've added nearly half a gallon of coolant in 1200 miles. Car went through this same type of drill back around 100,000+ miles with a leaky OEM head gasket.

I'm at 2500 miles now into the cleaning cycle and I'm thinking about dropping the oil ASAP and sending in a sample to check for coolant. Will also send in a coolant sample for presence of exhaust gases.

The plan is to use Delo 400 15w-40 HDEO for the rinse cycle with another filter change. My logic is last year I ran some Napa dino 20w-50 and it never ran smoother and no piston slap and no drop in mpg and oil loss was minimal.

Yes I changed the PCV valve last month and it was sludged and crusted over.

Never did get a chance to do a compression test.

 

[Frank]

Auto-Rx will stop a seal leak (if it is not torn or ripped) however you have to use non synthetic oil or group 111 oils.
Synthetic-High Mileage Oils have what is called a complex additive package and in that package is one additive whose job it is to hold oil to metal and probably seal sweller also.. You don't want this aditive combo if you want the leak to stop . Auto-Rx cleans the seal fabric on both sides and uses the simple additive package found in non synthetic oil to restore seal pliability which stops leak. it is like your getting a new seal. About seals when you use a seal sweller your seal is weaker where the swell is and much more liable to blow out.
Go to www.auto-rx.com and download application on how to stop seal leaks

 

[Chuck1986]

Quote:

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Auto-Rx will stop a seal leak (if it is not torn or ripped) however you have to use non synthetic oil or group 111 oils.
Synthetic-High Mileage Oils have what is called a complex additive package and in that package is one additive whose job it is to hold oil to metal and probably seal sweller also.. You don't want this aditive combo if you want the leak to stop . Auto-Rx cleans the seal fabric on both sides and uses the simple additive package found in non synthetic oil to restore seal pliability which stops leak. it is like your getting a new seal. About seals when you use a seal sweller your seal is weaker where the swell is and much more liable to blow out.
Go to www.auto-rx.com and download application on how to stop seal leaks

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Sorry to go kinda O/T, but would Auto-Rx be safe to use in an engine that has already seen group III and group IV synthetic oils? Just wondering if the seals have a problem with the Auto-Rx if they've already had exposure to the seal swelling agents in synthetic oils. I may use Auto-Rx in my Eclipse, as I'm already loving it in my Galant.

 

[Crusader]

Frank,

Just read the revised "Seal Leak" regime for Auto-Rx. I wasn't planning on using any true synthetic oil in the car until the leak issue is resolved. However after what you said about "High Mileage" synthetic oils swelling seals too much . . . it raise more questions for me

as to what specifically are the compounds in the various oils that over swell the seals?

After the leak was cured on the full Auto-Rx cycle I was planning on at some point using Mobil 1 High mileage 10w-30 in the Civic during the warmer months and possibly Valvoline Max life full synthetic 5w-30 or even Max Life syn blend 5w-30 in the colder months. Now I'm wondering if these oil have detrimental effects on the seals? So what HM oils do you recommend?

I do plan on following the instruction for the seal leak to the letter except for the wash cycle which looks like it will go to 3000 miles.

 

[Frank]

High mileage oils use seal swelling additive in there oil. Go to group111 oil's example Pennsoil Preminium or Castrol GTX as they don't use sell seal technology. and work with Auto-Rx to stop seal leak.

By the way if you go back to a true synthetic after stopping the leak within a few thousand miles leak will start again.
Please remember this so your not thinking Auto-Rx is the culprit.

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

Quote:

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By the way if you go back to a true synthetic after stopping the leak within a few thousand miles leak will start again.

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Any proof? Or just speculation?

 

[Frank]

Auto-Rx can work with synthetic for initial cleaning phase for "Sludge Issues" that includes Mobil 1. It is the sludge problem alone that causes me to state don't use a true synthetic as it's complex additive package holds oil to metal. You don't want this effect when your goal is to remove engine damaging sludge from oil lubricated parts.

Why not use a group 111 oil for second cleaning & rinsing that will do nicely ?

if synthetic users could understand that sludge keeps being formed and the Auto-Rx Application keeps sludge flowing into the filter and that the end game is to keep there engine from extinction due to sludge. i am sure
group 111 oils would be very acceptable.


ON ENGINE CLEANING APPLICATIONS AUTO-RX CAN WORK WELL WITH ANY SYNTHETIC.

 

[Crusader]

Another twist in the Saga:

Turns out there is a Service bulletin for 88-1995 Civic 1.5L non-Vtec engines that addresses coolant consumption and external oil leakage. It's SB # 97-047.

Not sure how oil leaks out externally from a headgasket however that would explain many things. I've got sticky black flaky goo under the radiator cap now. Car is grounded to local use only. I will pull the plugs tonight to check for evidence of coolant. I'm now 95% sure it's a headgasket. SB calls for a special thicker head gasket and special head bolts and different torque sequence.

 

[Colt45ws]

Oil has to pass through the headgasket to get to/from the top end. Its just as possible to leak out as in. Our 4.0L Aerostar is leaking coolant out through the headgasket. Its slow but after a couple months of sitting the loss is noticable. Think it took half a gallon in 3 or 4 months.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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Another twist in the Saga:

Turns out there is a Service bulletin for 88-1995 Civic 1.5L non-Vtec engines that addresses coolant consumption and external oil leakage. It's SB # 97-047.

Not sure how oil leaks out externally from a headgasket however that would explain many things. I've got sticky black flaky goo under the radiator cap now. Car is grounded to local use only. I will pull the plugs tonight to check for evidence of coolant. I'm now 95% sure it's a headgasket. SB calls for a special thicker head gasket and special head bolts and different torque sequence.

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A wrench I know encountered this ...and a head gasket didn't fix it. He was okay with water in the oil, but had a much harder time reasoning oil in the coolant. He was reluctant to do the job anyway ..but it bugged the heck out of him that the head gasket didn't fix it. Maybe he just got the wrong parts.

 

[TurboJim]

Gary how long did this engine continue to run with water in the oil and oil in the coolant? If the head gasket was not at fault what was causing this? A cracked block?

 

[Gary Allan]

No coolant got into the oil. This is what bugged the heck out of the wrench. It was the oil migrating to the coolant. A one way street. It ran fine ..at least apparently. I think that the owner got rid of the thing shortly after the repair.

 

[Craig in Canada]

The oil system is at much higher pressure than the cooling system. If the two meet anywhere, I'd expect to see oil in the coolant first. Not sure why the wrench found it so perplexing. Plus, was it definitely engine oil or could it have been ATF from the AT cooler?

 

[Crusader]

In the next 2 weeks I will be changing out the headgasket. I have every reason to believe that most if not all the leaking oil is coming from the head gasket area. I finally picked up a small inspection mirror to checked under the injector area and yes oil is seeping and dripping from the headgasket area. I will have roughly 1500 miles on rinse phase #1 with some Delo HDEO.

Sine I'm aborting the rinse #1 early how does effect the Auto-Rx Cycle? After the head gasket is changed I will yet again change out the oil at least once with Super Techs finest then again with yet another dino oil to flush any contamination out of the system.

So how should I proceed with the rinse. virtually all traces of Auto-Rx will be flushed from the systems after flush #2.

So should I add 2 oz or a maintenance dose to my final flush oil then continue?

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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The oil system is at much higher pressure than the cooling system. If the two meet anywhere, I'd expect to see oil in the coolant first. Not sure why the wrench found it so perplexing. Plus, was it definitely engine oil or could it have been ATF from the AT cooler?

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Sure ...except that, at some point, the engine gets shut off. The oil pressure drops to nothing..but the cooling system pressure continues on for quite some time before reaching zero. There's not too many ways to have a one way street ..yet this one does.

The VAST majority of instances where these two items meet is coolant in the oil. It's truly rare that you'll see oil in the coolant.