ATF in PS system?
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Here is the typical language for PSF specifications in the Owners Manual of a 2012 Nissan Frontier:
Quote:
Power steering fluid (PSF) Genuine NISSAN PSF or equivalent.*3
Footnote 3 says:
Quote:
*3: DEXRON™ VI type ATF may also be used.
Just checked my 2003 Frontier (Navara down here).
Transmission and Tx Case are "Genuine Nissan ATF" (with a note to see dealer about dex/merc tht can be used.
Power steering is pure dex III.
Here is the typical language for PSF specifications in the Owners Manual of a 2012 Nissan Frontier:
Quote:
Power steering fluid (PSF) Genuine NISSAN PSF or equivalent.*3
Footnote 3 says:
Quote:
*3: DEXRON™ VI type ATF may also be used.
Just checked my 2003 Frontier (Navara down here).
Transmission and Tx Case are "Genuine Nissan ATF" (with a note to see dealer about dex/merc tht can be used.
Power steering is pure dex III.
That's good to know. I have a few quarts of Dex VI that I have no use for. Maybe I'll run them through my '06 infinitis.
JHZR2
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Here is the typical language for PSF specifications in the Owners Manual of a 2012 Nissan Frontier:
Quote:
Power steering fluid (PSF) Genuine NISSAN PSF or equivalent.*3
Footnote 3 says:
Quote:
*3: DEXRON™ VI type ATF may also be used.
Here is the typical language for PSF specifications in the Owners Manual of a 1999 S-10 Nissan Frontier:
Quote:
GM Power steering fluid (PSF) (GM Part Number 12345347 1 - Pint, 1050017 - 1 quart, or equivalent. *
Quote:
*: DEXRON™ III type ATF may also be used.
Yes, GM and others specify their own income stream PSF's, but also allow "equivalents."
While the PSF is a non-dyed formula that is slightly different from an ATF, an ATF actually has more friction modifiers than a PSF.
Many if not most power steering pumps are vane type pumps that need minimal AW and friction modifiers. PSF's and ATF have similar Elastomer Seal compatibilities.
So IOW, the PSF is different, fewer FMs is a good thing, and so PSF isn't just an income stream??
Here is the typical language for PSF specifications in the Owners Manual of a 2012 Nissan Frontier:
Quote:
Power steering fluid (PSF) Genuine NISSAN PSF or equivalent.*3
Footnote 3 says:
Quote:
*3: DEXRON™ VI type ATF may also be used.
Here is the typical language for PSF specifications in the Owners Manual of a 1999 S-10 Nissan Frontier:
Quote:
GM Power steering fluid (PSF) (GM Part Number 12345347 1 - Pint, 1050017 - 1 quart, or equivalent. *
Quote:
*: DEXRON™ III type ATF may also be used.
Yes, GM and others specify their own income stream PSF's, but also allow "equivalents."
While the PSF is a non-dyed formula that is slightly different from an ATF, an ATF actually has more friction modifiers than a PSF.
Many if not most power steering pumps are vane type pumps that need minimal AW and friction modifiers. PSF's and ATF have similar Elastomer Seal compatibilities.
So IOW, the PSF is different, fewer FMs is a good thing, and so PSF isn't just an income stream??
Another data point, Ford Australia use
http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENCVLMOMobilfluid_424.aspx
in their Poewr steering, and the OTC product is, I believe a rebottle.
Meets GL4, so must be additised.
I did use it when my Caprice pump started packing it in. Quietted it while a second hand one was shipped to town.
http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENCVLMOMobilfluid_424.aspx
in their Poewr steering, and the OTC product is, I believe a rebottle.
Meets GL4, so must be additised.
I did use it when my Caprice pump started packing it in. Quietted it while a second hand one was shipped to town.
I use Amsoil Universal Atf in my Toyotas PS system. The Honda on the other hand uses factory PS fluid.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: InfmousCornholio
Originally Posted By: GSCJR
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: InfmousCornholio
Originally Posted By: GSCJR
Originally Posted By: Shannow
GSCJR said:My '97 says DexIII
'97 what? Just curious
Quick guess: Pontiac Bonneville.
No, but I'd love one.
You do know the Bonnies here were FWD, correct??
Heck, I've been using Redline High Temp ATF in my TL's power steering for 3 years with zero issues. In fact, it's quieter when cold in the winter now. I picked this fluid because it's pretty close in viscosity to the factory fluid. My biggest fear was compatibility with seals and the fluid causing leaks. Otherwise I wasn't worried at all with using the ATF in the powersteering. This is one case where it's cheaper to use an expensive oil like Redline over the factory fluid.
I've also used an oil loaded with ZDDP for 130,000 miles of its 135,000 total miles with almost half of that being Redline 0-40. I use Redline Lightweight Racing (type F) ATF in the trans mixed in a 2:1 ratio with D4. It's had a Type F or a mix of Type F and Dex III for 3/4 of its life.
For what it's worth, especially at higher mileage, the Honda 5at does really well on a thin ATF in several ways. It's also nearly bulletproof when combined with lower FM and switch replacement religiously every 2 years. So much for Honda's fluid scare tactics.
I've also used an oil loaded with ZDDP for 130,000 miles of its 135,000 total miles with almost half of that being Redline 0-40. I use Redline Lightweight Racing (type F) ATF in the trans mixed in a 2:1 ratio with D4. It's had a Type F or a mix of Type F and Dex III for 3/4 of its life.
For what it's worth, especially at higher mileage, the Honda 5at does really well on a thin ATF in several ways. It's also nearly bulletproof when combined with lower FM and switch replacement religiously every 2 years. So much for Honda's fluid scare tactics.
Well, got a turkey baster and pulled out the old fluid. That had to be factory 1992 GM power steering fluid, it was almost black.
Found a bottle of old Maxlife Dex/Merc ATF (without the newer Dex VI and so on applications) and filled it with that. Seems fine so far.
Found a bottle of old Maxlife Dex/Merc ATF (without the newer Dex VI and so on applications) and filled it with that. Seems fine so far.
I've been planning to get two cheap clear plastic 2-quart pitchers with sealed lids, add petcocks with barbed brass fittings to the bottom of each, and tape the pitchers together. Then connect the reservoir inlet and outlet lines to my homemade oversize "reservoir", fill the outlet-line-pitcher with fresh ATF, and run the engine (turning the steering back and forth) until the inlet-pitcher is full.
Seems like a pretty easy way to get a 100% fluid change.
Seems like a pretty easy way to get a 100% fluid change.
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I would always read the manual, some cars take PS fluid, some take ATF.
Do the turkey baster thing like 5 times after driving a while. Then the fluid will be mostly fresh. I use a vacuum pump but same principle.
Originally Posted By: ryanschillinger
Do the turkey baster thing like 5 times after driving a while. Then the fluid will be mostly fresh. I use a vacuum pump but same principle.
There are different ways depending on the vehicle manufacturer. Honda recommends their own PS fluid (it's really different). They recommend that a flush be done by connecting the return hose to a container and then extracting as much fluid out until it stops by turning the steering wheel almost lock to lock several times. It will groan and it will sound like it's falling apart. However, I'm told it sounds bad but doesn't damage the system since there's residual fluid to protect the parts. Then after putting everything back in place it should get filled several times until all the air is purged (again almost lock to lock).
Subaru says use "Dexron" (no number specified) but these days Subaru recommends either their ATF or ATF-HP. I've talked to the service dept and their service manual flush is pretty much the same as Honda. I haven't tried it though. I tried one turkey baster fill. I'm not sure if that might have messed something up - maybe a false seal. Eventually it started groaning, and I'm thinking it could have been gunk covering up the O-ring dissolving and then allowing air to get sucked in. A mechanic recommended (and I paid him to do it) replacing the entire pressure hose, although I was thinking maybe his replacing the O-ring probably took care of it.
From what I can gather, if ATF is specified for power steering, then it's probably going to be tolerant of a wide range of different types of ATF. Subaru was confident enough that they now recommend using their own ATF even if it's not exactly the same as "Dexron".
Do the turkey baster thing like 5 times after driving a while. Then the fluid will be mostly fresh. I use a vacuum pump but same principle.
There are different ways depending on the vehicle manufacturer. Honda recommends their own PS fluid (it's really different). They recommend that a flush be done by connecting the return hose to a container and then extracting as much fluid out until it stops by turning the steering wheel almost lock to lock several times. It will groan and it will sound like it's falling apart. However, I'm told it sounds bad but doesn't damage the system since there's residual fluid to protect the parts. Then after putting everything back in place it should get filled several times until all the air is purged (again almost lock to lock).
Subaru says use "Dexron" (no number specified) but these days Subaru recommends either their ATF or ATF-HP. I've talked to the service dept and their service manual flush is pretty much the same as Honda. I haven't tried it though. I tried one turkey baster fill. I'm not sure if that might have messed something up - maybe a false seal. Eventually it started groaning, and I'm thinking it could have been gunk covering up the O-ring dissolving and then allowing air to get sucked in. A mechanic recommended (and I paid him to do it) replacing the entire pressure hose, although I was thinking maybe his replacing the O-ring probably took care of it.
From what I can gather, if ATF is specified for power steering, then it's probably going to be tolerant of a wide range of different types of ATF. Subaru was confident enough that they now recommend using their own ATF even if it's not exactly the same as "Dexron".
My '94 Thunderbird SuperCoupe spec'd Ford P/S fluid, but my 2000 Grandpa-mobile and my 2003 Marauder both spec ATF.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
This is such a grey area.
The OM for my brothers blazer says to use GM approved fluid for the PS system. What exactly is approved fluid?
I questioned this hear and was accused of trying to undermine the engineers.
Probably the GM 9985010 standard.
http://www.acdelco.com/auto-parts/vehicle-maintenance/mechanical-repair/power-steering-fluid.html
This is such a grey area.
The OM for my brothers blazer says to use GM approved fluid for the PS system. What exactly is approved fluid?
I questioned this hear and was accused of trying to undermine the engineers.
Probably the GM 9985010 standard.
http://www.acdelco.com/auto-parts/vehicle-maintenance/mechanical-repair/power-steering-fluid.html
My cold weather experience in northern Canada- besides not being able to keep factory ps lines from blowing in the cold (made up proper hydraulic hoses, problem fixed):
- GM has a specific cold weather fluid- chrysler in the area uses it too, works OK.
- Amsoil ps swelled the cap seal
- I now use Mobil 1 synthetic atf with Lubegard.
- GM has a specific cold weather fluid- chrysler in the area uses it too, works OK.
- Amsoil ps swelled the cap seal
- I now use Mobil 1 synthetic atf with Lubegard.
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Originally Posted By: dfarr67
My cold weather experience in northern Canada- besides not being able to keep factory ps lines from blowing in the cold (made up proper hydraulic hoses, problem fixed):
- GM has a specific cold weather fluid- chrysler in the area uses it too, works OK.
- Amsoil ps swelled the cap seal
- I now use Mobil 1 synthetic atf with Lubegard.
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10-5044-Climate-Power-Steering/dp/B007Q10PTW
My cold weather experience in northern Canada- besides not being able to keep factory ps lines from blowing in the cold (made up proper hydraulic hoses, problem fixed):
- GM has a specific cold weather fluid- chrysler in the area uses it too, works OK.
- Amsoil ps swelled the cap seal
- I now use Mobil 1 synthetic atf with Lubegard.
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10-5044-Climate-Power-Steering/dp/B007Q10PTW
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