ATF in power steering system question

[Whitewolf]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Looking at CHF11s , MaxLife, +4, and DexVI fluid viscosity

CHF11S
@100 6.0
@40 18.7
VI 313 (wow!)

MaxLife ATF
@100 5.91
@40 28.82
VI 156

Castrol +4
@100 7.5
@40 33
VI 206

Castrol Dex VI
@100 6.1
@40 30.2
VI 148


Looking at these numbers alone, the CHF11s looks like it would pump and flow easier in colder temps, which I would think may or may not improve power steering performance/smoothness in cold temps. Also, the VI is pretty darn high at 313.

This info obvisouly doesn't tell you what additives or other properties may affect performance or wear protection.

It seems like the CHF is really good stuff, but is it overkill in a p/s system? Would it be good to convert an ATF system to CHF11s? Would there be any real issue or damage by converting a CHF system to ATF?


CHF 11S is only about 1100 cP @ -40C.

 

[ledslinger]

My brother used 202 in his 2006 BMW that said CH 11S on the cap. Pentosin said it was interchangeable with CH 11s.

 

[harp]

Anybody dig into to difference if any between 11s and 202?
PDF's suggest they are practically the same, 11s better for colder climates and 202 for hotter.

Audi has ceded the PN for 11s to 202 even for models built after 1990 that came factory filled with 11s even though Pentosin's site says 202 is designed for 2006+.

202 is a few bucks cheaper most likely due to more supply.

 

[SHOZ]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2R9oQ1UwB-HSms0eXFTcmVrRGc/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2R9oQ1UwB-HVGIwU1B1cDRpbDg/view?usp=sharing

 

[harp]

I have both those pdf's, nothing states anything different then a few numbers.
The write up is practically the same too.

I suppose there is not much to say about PS fluid

 

[Oregoonian]

I've done several 'turkey baster' refills in my ol' 03' Ford Focus. The manual states to use ATF fluid.....so my replacement fluid is Motorcraft Mercon V. Its works perfectly.

Will do another 'turkey baster' change this week. I can usually pull out about 8 oz. at each time. I do this two or three time a year.

 

[seanf]

Originally Posted By: harp
Anybody dig into to difference if any between 11s and 202?
PDF's suggest they are practically the same, 11s better for colder climates and 202 for hotter.

Audi has ceded the PN for 11s to 202 even for models built after 1990 that came factory filled with 11s even though Pentosin's site says 202 is designed for 2006+.

202 is a few bucks cheaper most likely due to more supply.
202 is just the newest fluid as far as I was told and backwards compatible, this way most places only have to stock one type of fluid for all the cars requiring chf 11s/202. I swapped out all the fluid in my 2002 Audi with the Fuchs version of chf202 fluid, no issues thus far and I got it locally for $15 L

 

[Shrubitup]

Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
I do this two or three time a year.


Why 3X per year when most ppl only change their motor oil 2X per year? Seems 1X annually is sufficient for say 15,000 miles? You drive 30-45K annually?

 

[Boss302fan]

Pentosin states that CH 202 is not compatible with other ATF's that may be used in a power steering systems. Make sure you fully flush if you have decided to use Pentosin...

 

[Silverado12]

FWIW my Challenger calls for ATF+4
the pickup truck has PS fluid (def not ATF because it looks like motor oil).

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
FWIW my Challenger calls for ATF+4
the pickup truck has PS fluid (def not ATF because it looks like motor oil).


You can probably use ATF in the truck. Most GM products can take ATF in the PS.

Even many non-GM cars that specify ATF in the steering come from the factory with brown fluid, which is probably undyed ATF.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Shrubitup
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
I do this two or three time a year.


Why 3X per year when most ppl only change their motor oil 2X per year? Seems 1X annually is sufficient for say 15,000 miles? You drive 30-45K annually?


Because this isn't a full change. It only gets a third or so of the fluid out. So doing it several times is close to a single complete change...

 

[mongo161]

Every 2 or 3 years I've flushed out the old PS fluid, which is ATF Dexron III. My vehicle is a 1997 Toyota 4 Runner, SR5. I've always replaced the fluid in the PS unit with Mobil 1, Synthetic ATF and the PS unit still runs quiet and smooth.

The color, which means nothing, always comes out Red with a little brown coloration at flush time.

 

[Oregoonian]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Shrubitup
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
I do this two or three time a year.


Why 3X per year when most ppl only change their motor oil 2X per year? Seems 1X annually is sufficient for say 15,000 miles? You drive 30-45K annually?


Because this isn't a full change. It only gets a third or so of the fluid out. So doing it several times is close to a single complete change...


My thoughts completely. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Joel_MD]

In my Swedish cars I use the Febi-Bilstein version of CHF-11S. In the other two cars I use Amsoil synthetic ATF. All the steering components seem to be happy with that.

 

[tig1]

I have used Mobil 1 ATF in all my Ford PS pumps for the last 20 years with no pump failures and all pumps have remained quite. At every engine oil change(10K) I turkey baster the pump fluid.

 

[Shrubitup]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Power Steering fluid is really only a Hydraulic fluid.

I usually replace the fluid every 3-4 years and use Redline power steering fluid or Lucas Power Steering Fluid with Conditioners... Both seem to work fantastic in older or new vehicles.


+1 on Lucas oil ps fluid with conditioners. Use it in my civic. I use md-3 ATF in my nissan. Md-3 is said to be quite similiar to matic-J.

 

[BrianF]

When it came time to swap out the fluid in my 06 Tb I did a few suction/fills with Amsoil multi vehicle atf. it was the cheapest synthetic atf I could find. That was 3 years ago. It has been running flawlessly ever since. Took away the usual GM power steering pump whine in the cold.

I swapped in the same fluid to my Ram, which does call for atf. Again it took away the cold pump whine.

But I digress, I have been using atf in GM ps applications for years prior to my 06. I have yet to have a problem.

 

[Exhaustgases]

First of all pumps. The pump in an automatic transmission can be very similar to the one for power steering. Anything from a variable vane type, to gear type. ATF seems to lube them just fine.
Now what to use in the PS system. Its really pretty simple the auto manufacture paid plenty of money to engineers to design the system, so they should know what is good or not good to use in their products. Just go by what the owners manual or the cap on the PS reservoir says to use. Its not a this or that will work deal, unless you are stuck 100's of miles from an auto parts house.

 

[ledslinger]

Originally Posted By: Exhaustgases
First of all pumps. The pump in an automatic transmission can be very similar to the one for power steering. Anything from a variable vane type, to gear type. ATF seems to lube them just fine.
Now what to use in the PS system. Its really pretty simple the auto manufacture paid plenty of money to engineers to design the system, so they should know what is good or not good to use in their products. Just go by what the owners manual or the cap on the PS reservoir says to use. Its not a this or that will work deal, unless you are stuck 100's of miles from an auto parts house.


This means there has never been a better fluid than the one the designer specified. Even fluids developed after the steering system came out. This means whatever fluid specified for the first power steering system has never been improved upon.