ATF+4 in a Mercedes Transmission! Really?

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Hi Gents.
I am hoping you can clear up some confusion I have with my Grand Cherokee 3.0crd.

It is fitted with a German manufactured W5J400 Transmission not an Indiana manufactured NAG1. Jeep say the correct fluid to use is ATF+4. Do I really put ATF+4 in this Mercedes unit or are did Chrysler mess up with this? I note Chrysler offer a Merc spec fluid for the Sprinter and Crossfire models that use the same Transmission as mine yet they say the Jeep Transmission takes ATF+4.

If I recommended that Mercedes guys used ATF+4 in their German made vehicles i think i would be laughed off the Forum.

Can anyone help me out with what i have got wrong here or what i am missing please.

Many thanks.
Tikka.
 
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It's correct. You have a Dodge product, not a Mercedes. Doesn't matter who makes the transmission.
It's Dodge and ATF +4.
Who is to say that ATF +4 isn't what the Mercedes owners are putting in, it's just rebadged, relabeled and of course Re- priced for thier contentment.
 
Yep.

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
It's correct. You have a Dodge product, not a Mercedes. Doesn't matter who makes the transmission.
It's Dodge and ATF +4.
Who is to say that ATF +4 isn't what the Mercedes owners are putting in, it's just rebadged, relabeled and of course Re- priced for thier contentment.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
It's correct. You have a Dodge product, not a Mercedes. Doesn't matter who makes the transmission.
It's Dodge and ATF +4.
Who is to say that ATF +4 isn't what the Mercedes owners are putting in, it's just rebadged, relabeled and of course Re- priced for thier contentment.

Yep. Like ZF6 and Mercon SP. One is made on the USA and $50 for 6 quarts. The other is made overseas and is $20/quart. Add a VW, Audi, or Jag label to the ZF6 and it gets even more expensive.
 
I remember years back, discussion on this site revealed the same transmission used in the Crossfire and SLK had different fluid reccomendations. Chrysler spec'ed ATF+4, Mercedes their fluid. So I wouldn't be surprised if you have the same situation.
 
ATF+4 came to be as Mercedes when they owned Chrysler they wanted a synthetic fluid that would work in ATF+3 Trans and the newer Mercedes 722.6 and others they would be using in Chrysler products. So yea I believe it.
I have also used Maxlife in my old Mercedes that had a 722.6 trans.
 
There is some bulletin out there from Mercedes saying ATF+4 is ok to use in their transmissions

Originally Posted By: Jimzz
ATF+4 came to be as Mercedes when they owned Chrysler they wanted a synthetic fluid that would work in ATF+3 Trans and the newer Mercedes 722.6 and others they would be using in Chrysler products. So yea I believe it.
I have also used Maxlife in my old Mercedes that had a 722.6 trans.


+1

this is also true
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Who is to say that ATF +4 isn't what the Mercedes owners are putting in, it's just rebadged, relabeled and of course Re- priced for thier contentment.

Sadly, there are folks who will never, ever believe that. They are adamant that OEM fluids are special concoctions made especially for different manufacturers.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
It's correct. You have a Dodge product, not a Mercedes. Doesn't matter who makes the transmission.
It's Dodge and ATF +4.
Who is to say that ATF +4 isn't what the Mercedes owners are putting in, it's just rebadged, relabeled and of course Re- priced for thier contentment.


Hi Panzerman
Thank you for helping.
I hear what you say and i am only asking questions. You say a Dodge product ( mine is Jeep if it makes a difference ) takes ATF+4 regardless? The Dodge Sprinter took a Merc 236.12 spec fluid and Mopar provided one for it, 5127382AB is the part number.
https://www.morris4x4center.com/mopar-mb236-12-automatic-1-quart-32-oz-bottle-5127382ab.html

Tikka.
 
Hi lads.
I hope you can understand my confusion.

If ATF+4 is just the same as Merc spec then why not just make it the standard fluid across the range? They specifically stated that a Merc based fluid MUST be used in the Mercedes made Sprinter and Crossfire Transmissions but strangely not the Jeep. Indeed they provided dealers with a Merc 236.12 spec fluid for the job. They told dealers in a TSB NOT to use ATF+4 in those Transmissions.

http://www.wkjeeps.com/TSB/tsb_wk_2101407.pdf

Note it also mentions NOT to use ATF+4 in the WJ Jeep with W5J400 or NAG1 Transmission. This was a Diesel powered WJ not available in US. This is the same Transmission in my WK Jeep.

Is my logic flawed? What am i missing? Does anyone have the specs of ATF+4 and Mercedes 236.12 to compare?

Many thanks for you help.

Tikka
 
To the best of my understanding, the W5J400 is not much different than the NAG1 - save for the Mercedes torque converter in the German-made transmission. The ATF +4 specification was equivalent to MB Sheet 236.10.

Can you get Shell Spirax S4 ATF 3403 (formerly Shell 3403 ATF) where you are?
 
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
To the best of my understanding, the W5J400 is not much different than the NAG1 - save for the Mercedes torque converter in the German-made transmission. The ATF +4 specification was equivalent to MB Sheet 236.10.

Can you get Shell Spirax S4 ATF 3403 (formerly Shell 3403 ATF) where you are?


Hi Falcon
Thank you for helping me.
Yes I believe the NAG1 and W5J400 are very similar and are of the same family. I can understand the NAG1 using ATF+4 as this transmission was made by Chrysler at their Indiana plant and perhaps subtle changes were made to operate with the Chrysler spec ATF+4? The W5J400 is a made in Germany by Mercedes unit and I presume the same as any other Transmission in any other Diesel Mercedes that takes merc spec fluid.
Interesting you say ATF+4 is same spec as 236.10. Makes me wonder why they did not want ATF+4 in the Sprinter or Crossfire but yet it is ok in my Jeep.
Yes I get can most any fluid here. I am just confused why Chrysler tell me to use ATF+4 in my Jeep and not their own Merc spec stuff that they insist on in their other two Merc based models.
Many thanks
Tikka.
 
My limited understanding on MB 236.12 is it's low viscosity at KV40C of 29-31 cSt.
Whilst an ATF +4 has a KV40C of about 35 cSt.
In your application, I wouldn't hesitate to use an ATF +4 really.
 
NAG1/722.6 transmission is the same as the one used in the cherokee. I also have one that I have now put 165k miles on. I use atf+4. If you use the drainplug, you will drain 4qts. Other trivia about your tranmission is that it was sourced from Europe as opposed to the other 722.6 that Chrysler builds. Transmission builders say that atf+4 is a bit faster shifting than the mercedes fluid. You really should find the jeepforum if you plan to keep one of these on the road.
 
Originally Posted By: Tikka

Hi Falcon
Thank you for helping me.
Yes I believe the NAG1 and W5J400 are very similar and are of the same family. I can understand the NAG1 using ATF+4 as this transmission was made by Chrysler at their Indiana plant and perhaps subtle changes were made to operate with the Chrysler spec ATF+4? The W5J400 is a made in Germany by Mercedes unit and I presume the same as any other Transmission in any other Diesel Mercedes that takes merc spec fluid.
Interesting you say ATF+4 is same spec as 236.10. Makes me wonder why they did not want ATF+4 in the Sprinter or Crossfire but yet it is ok in my Jeep.
Yes I get can most any fluid here. I am just confused why Chrysler tell me to use ATF+4 in my Jeep and not their own Merc spec stuff that they insist on in their other two Merc based models.
Many thanks
Tikka.


Manufacturers often spec their own fluids for transmissions sourced from another OEM, even if it is the exact same fluid in different packaging.

The ZF 6HP26, for instance, was used by many different brands including Aston Martin, Bentley, BMW, Ford, Hyundai, Jaguar and even Rolls-Royce and Maserati. ZF recommends Shell M-1375.4 for this unit, packaged as ZF Life-Guard 6. On the other hand, for example, BMW recommends their own fluid (83 22 0 142 516) and as does Hyundai (00232-19015). Ford required Mercon SP.

The unit you have was spec'd for Shell ATF 3403-M115. Personally, if it was my vehicle, that is what I would run. You might want to have a read through this thread.
 
Hi Gents
Thank you to everyone for posting. I genuinely appreciate it when people take time to help me out.
I am going to read and try and digest what has been said and come back.
Many thanks.
 
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