ASTM TESTS OPINION

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boxcartommie22

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your opinion...this might stir up a hornets nest.."the astm test is a one pass type test that tells you the largest particles the media can and does pass 38-40u absolute is the lowest test result we have tested form any oem filter. all the other levels of percentages (beta ratios) are more for marketing purposes than for actual effects to the engine.it looks much better to put 15u on the box(at some level of efficiency) than 60u(the absolute rating from an astm test)by the way the filter that returned 38-40u advertises 5u on the filter packaging"....

this is one reason i been using a stainless steel filter for my vehicles...this is from k&p engineering an faa approved oil filter
 
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Plenty of older cars had that, or no filter at all. I've had a few 4cycle Honda's with just a screen, and not a fine one at that.

Though, my first question would be why you would throw away your warranty, followed quickly by wondering why you think you've outsmarted every car company and filter company even though you're using their testing and methodology? It would seem you trust their testing and results, but not their interpretation?
 
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does not invalidate my warrenty..filters and flows far better then any paper filter...magnusome moss act.....all about making money..3 buck filter to protect a very expensive investment...is laughable...
 
Funny, the fuse that protects the very expensive investment is probably under three dollars, and not laughable. An items value is not the same as an item's price.

But back to the filter, if you think you've outsmarted every filter and auto manufacturer that's great. I just find it interesting you're using their testing methodology to do it. Auto manufacturers have been there in the 50's, 60's. Honda still makes engines today with screen filters. Because they're a lot less expensive for them to do. But nobody does in on cars. I'm missing perhaps your conspiracy theory as to why this is the case?
 
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Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
...this might stir up a hornets nest..


I think you might be correct about this statement. If by your research you are pleased with what you are using I say good for you. I'm getting the same flack on another thread about a different product.

Carry on.
 
thanks johnny!!!iam just not of the school of paper filters and all the problems they have that is why all the retionalizing by people trying to talk them selves into a bad design as paper filters!!stainless steel filters are not new. and i don't have to worry about bits of paper breaking under load and also bits of metal pirecing through the filter and into the engine..it is funny how you get slammed on here by the people who have no idea about other alternatives that work and are far better...any ways its their loss not mine..we also use these filters in dragsters with 80lbs boost. and their daily drivers...it makes so much sense to me to pass a thick oil through a paper filter along with all the restrictions of the filter itself..no iam not engineer nor have alot of expertise as alot of people claim on this site but its works for me and that is what is important..also being faa approved its a viable alternative..and the history of stainless steel mesh for filtering is well documented..
 
Out of curiosity, how are you going about cleaning these filters during oil changes? I hope you don't feel like you're getting slammed, I think my questions are valid:

1. I think you're setting yourself up for huge warranty hassles.
2. You're choosing an unknown* over a proven to work alternative.
3. I would think these would be a pain to clean.

* unknown on your particular vehicles. Ford doesn't test these. They test paper filters. You can buy them. They have a Ford Motorcraft logo.

If those don't matter to you that's great. But for my dollar, that's why I choose paper filters.

Lastly, if you really feel you're "getting slammed" I have to ask... why even start a "discussion"? Write an article, post it, and have the moderators lock it.
 
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very easy to clean!! i change oil every 3000-4000 miles..i let soak for a couple of min. in gas and use a brush to clean. my oil is pretty clean as is.i also use soap and hot water.. let dry out and ready to use...been very easy..guess i didn't mean about being slammed..i always do things out of the norm.. always try to find a better way...it is expensive at first but well worth the outcome too me..thanks bepperd for being gracious
 
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Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
...it is funny how you get slammed on here by the people who have no idea about other alternatives that work and are far better...any ways its their loss not mine..we also use these filters in dragsters with 80lbs boost. and their daily drivers...it makes so much sense to me to pass a thick oil through a paper filter along with all the restrictions of the filter itself..no iam not engineer nor have alot of expertise as alot of people claim on this site but its works for me and that is what is important..


I can see a screen filter working well for a race car that needs good flow due to high viscosity oil, high volume oil pump and high RPM usage. And if the engine is tore down and serviced quite often, and maybe even rebuilt once and awhile - that's what real racers do, so they are not overly concerned about the engine lasing forever.

I think these filters only filter down to about 35 microns ... so that means there is a lot of smaller particles below 35 microns going through. Good paper filters take out quite a bit of smaller particles - down to 10 microns or less. That's the big difference between screen filters and a good paper to synthetic media filter.

Dragsters as daily drivers ... nice.
grin.gif
 
any oem paper filter filters at best 38-40u despite what is advertised..lots of times under heat lets up to 200u into your engine...the 35u in the stainless filter is 100% single pass....plenty for good protection...lets see, motorcraft, is only 20u at 80% and same goes for all the other paper filters and their advertised specs.lets see all that tech is ,how much? 2.00 bucks or so!..get what you paid for..those pleates are not consistant at all..people on here have tested their over sized filter, for instance, they filter about 40-60u abolute..and get very little silicon readings..i done 1 used oil analysis long ago...my silicon levels were 1 ppm after 3000 oci..also keep my oil clean looking....iam very pleased with these and feel safe from metal blowout..paper just lets stuff through with contraction and expandtion and other factors..
 
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Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
any oem paper filter filters at best 38-40u despite what is advertised..lots of times under heat lets up to 200u into your engine...


You have a link to official data on that info?

Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
the 35u in the stainless filter is 100% single pass....plenty for good protection...lets see, motorcraft, is only 20u at 80% and same goes for all the other paper filters and their advertised specs.lets see all that tech is ,how much? 2.00 bucks or so!..get what you paid for..those pleates are not consistant at all...


PureOne is rated at 99.9% @ 20 microns based on the ISO 4548-12 performance test. Many other top tier filters are in the same ball park in terms of filtering efficiency.

So how does this screen filter come out in the ISO 4548-12 performance test?

Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
..people on here have tested their over sized filter, for instance, they filter about 40-60u abolute..and get very little silicon readings..


"People on here" have tested their filters how?
 
look above on here the collapsed pureone filter and all the others reported on here coming apart...wix, motorcraft, my answer is iam not taking that chance..suit yourself and go with the status quo..i can site all the data you ask but people will still be skrptic so iam not wasting my time..go by what works and what can happen if one of those pleates give away from trying to push 3gpm through a paper filter...
 
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So where are the answers to my questions above ... so how does this screen filter come out in the ISO 4548-12 performance test?

Pretty rare to see a metal end cap, metal center core filter have issues. Now Ecores ... those are a lot more scary for possible failures.
 
if you read the above i gave you my answer!! do your own home work for i don't have the ability to post doc. on here..if you want to prove me wrong only then iam not going to help you..i can't believe that people on here actually use wal mart's brand oil filter, bosch and alot others and love them!!! what can i say go drill them..
 
zee, i have a one site you can see k&p engineering some good info there..look under tech...before i decided to go with this filter i did alot of research long time ago..i don't take anyones word for it...iam a perfectionist and investigate things to no end..of course ,alot of our race teams and private hot rod clubs use this filter along with very expensive daily drivers swear by this filter..you won't be disappointed ,and won't worry about stuff getting past this filter like paper does....i believe the tests done on paper oem filters the lowest particles is 38-40u..iam not an authority such as your self...i just want the best of the best for my vehicles even if it an overkill...
 
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Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
"the astm test is a one pass type test that tells you the largest particles the media can and does pass 38-40u absolute is the lowest test result we have tested form any oem filter. all the other levels of percentages (beta ratios) are more for marketing purposes than for actual effects to the engine.it looks much better to put 15u on the box(at some level of efficiency) than 60u(the absolute rating from an astm test)by the way the filter that returned 38-40u advertises 5u on the filter packaging"....


So is this quote from K&P Engineering test results using ASTM F316? Just trying to put the puzzle together.

Found their FAQ page ... some interesting info there.
http://www.kandpengineering.com/faq.shtml
 
yes
and i googled military also long ago and got all kinds of info on stainless steel filters...this tech is very old...but i have to say i love these filters frees up drag on the engine.....
 
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