Are winter tires "worth it"?

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Compared to my CC2's, longitudinal traction (accel/decel) is very similar. Probably matters more what "type of snow" you're on than what tire you're on. Lateral (turning), I give maybe a 5-15% advantage to the WS90's. Snow tires are only worth it if you have a FWD vehicle like this one and are clawing for every ounce of advantage you can get. Otherwise, CC2's on AWD are more capable.

On ice, I'd give the WS90's a 5-10% advantage.

Long story short, WS90's on a FWD strike me as a good move as I want every ounce of advantage. On my AWD cars? Waste of money. CC2's are 90% the tire, and AWD more than makes up the difference. PSAS4's are 85-90% the tire CC2's are in snow and ice, in my experience, as long as the tread is 6/32+.

*This is based on subjective driving feel in the Ozark mountains, I left my tape measure at home.

The internet is full of crap about CC2's and modern all weather tires "not being good enough", is my take from this little experiment.
I assume your CC2's are quite new still? We ran the last couple months of winter in 2019 with the Subaru on the new all-seasons and they did surprise me as well, how good they were in most conditions, and how little the new Xice2's were better in slush or deep snow. But the rare time I've been on older all seasons even with 8/32 tread, they were terrible!
I do think a lot of snow tires now don't have enough space and gaps between the tread blocks, to work well in slush and in dense or packed snow near the freezing point like in yoru picture, or deep snow. Optimizing tires for these conditions makes them worse on ice, and noisier and worse pavement grip, but none of them work well on freezing rain ice, so I stay home in that, and with good snow grip, I used to just find some snow to drive on when the tire tracks are ice. Our Xice2's were great on cold icy hard pack snow, but in slush they were not good, and they didn't really cut in as the slip angles increased, so not very forgiving either.
These tires on our Sentra, then Neon, and Tracker in narrow as possible sizes were great in the loose soft snow and gripped even more as the slip angle increased as they cut down even more. I used to love a fresh 4" of snow on the back roads as you could just do continuous "S" drifts down the road with total confidence they weren't going to give up once you got a bit sideways. New snow tires don't give that confidence anymore with the shoulder more optimized for pavement grip....

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AWD Highlander next to me at traffic light today. Supposed to get a dusting to 1" later. Front and back looked like this at least on passengers side. They turned at the light I presume others were the same.

I try to stay away from others and this is one reason. Also at bottom it says INSIDE, not that it would matter at this point.

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AWD Highlander next to me at traffic light today. Supposed to get a dusting to 1" later. Front and back looked like this at least on passengers side. They turned at the light I presume others were the same.

I try to stay away from others and this is one reason. Also at bottom it says INSIDE, not that it would matter at this point.

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Wow! That is scary.
 
it's a question i never have to ask myself, because they are mandatory where i live. and police check all the time. i have the newer generation Nokian WRG5 and i find they are an alternative if you want to keep your tires year round, even in my area. they are impressive. i have pushed them during a snow storm on road 172. one of the most dangerous and difficult road in my area, and it was impressive. i have reached the point where i will run these tires year round.
 
AWD Highlander next to me at traffic light today. Supposed to get a dusting to 1" later. Front and back looked like this at least on passengers side. They turned at the light I presume others were the same.

I try to stay away from others and this is one reason. Also at bottom it says INSIDE, not that it would matter at this point.

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That person is rolling murderer.
 
No way any car without awd is going up that with or without snows. So I parked at the top, but my neighborhood and commute still has some very steep inclines.
Man, many cities in Europe have streets with that grade. What do you think, everyone drives AWD there?
 
AWD Highlander next to me at traffic light today. Supposed to get a dusting to 1" later. Front and back looked like this at least on passengers side. They turned at the light I presume others were the same.

I try to stay away from others and this is one reason. Also at bottom it says INSIDE, not that it would matter at this point.

View attachment 258283
I need to know who their alignment guy is.
 
I’ve made it up very steep, icy, winding roads, (I used to live on one), with a 2WD and snows, while AWD without snows used to crash on that road with regularity.

Put the real snows on, give it a try, report back.

The reality of true winter tire performance, and what you imagine, is very different.
I can tell you that the real snows have not made much difference. That said, got some ice in the morning I bet. Time for the real reason I bought them. We will see! So far it's just easy stuff like this. However, I am worried that I have only fwd and not awd for the trip home up my mountain road. We will see if it spins or makes headway:
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In the snow they simply won't be making it up unless treated.
Of course, they make it up. Life goes on. I grew up close to town, where they have streets 22-28. Houses are there, kids go to school, people go to work. Those are side streets. They are not cleared. Also, what cleared means? In many of those streets, built 300-400yrs ago, trucks that can clear properly cannot even go through. Also, take into consideration that clearing completely exposes asphalt and/or concrete, which then becomes more slippery. Snow is actually better to climb than exposed asphalt, which has a thin layer of ice on top. In town I am talking about, the temperature can drop so much that nothing works at one point. Yet, people go on with their lives.
By the way, city in New Zealand has whole pack neighborhood on a street that is 34.6.
 
Of course, they make it up. Life goes on. I grew up close to town, where they have streets 22-28. Houses are there, kids go to school, people go to work. Those are side streets. They are not cleared. Also, what cleared means? In many of those streets, built 300-400yrs ago, trucks that can clear properly cannot even go through. Also, take into consideration that clearing completely exposes asphalt and/or concrete, which then becomes more slippery. Snow is actually better to climb than exposed asphalt, which has a thin layer of ice on top. In town I am talking about, the temperature can drop so much that nothing works at one point. Yet, people go on with their lives.
By the way, city in New Zealand has whole pack neighborhood on a street that is 34.6.
Well, if you ever visit on a snow day with your fwd vehicle, you're welcome to try it. Keep in mind without a running start, many fwd cars cannot make it up my drive on a sunny day.
 
Well, if you ever visit on a snow day with your fwd vehicle, you're welcome to try it. Keep in mind without a running start, many fwd cars cannot make it up my drive on a sunny day.
The world is much bigger place than your driveway.
 
And if I don't get up that...I'll never see it.
My cousin's old house up a 1/2 -3/4 mile long driveway toward top of mountain he would clear a section at the bottom for "visitors". He also installed a phone/intercom thing so you cold call the house to come get picked up. Cell service was also not a thing back then.

He would take his Skidoo, studded and chained plow truck and come get you. He and his wife always had 4x4 with studded winter rtires for the daily.

I blew a front hub in my Explorer in spring time in the mud trying to get up there. Stopped that trip to house. Later in life he paved the driveway and did the heated driveway thing with insulation under and glycol filled tube. IIRC he did the pumps/tubes as geothermal drilled down.
 
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We have always used winter tires up until a few years ago when we tried Firestone all-weathers on the van (changing 5 sets of tires spring and fall is getting tiring as I age). That lasted one winter after which my wife told me to get proper winters on the van again. Got these on there now and it rivals the truck with its winter tires and 4wd.
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The lineup is like this all on dedicated rims (two sheds stuffed with stored tires):
Macan - summer Michelin Primacy, winter Michelin Pilot Alpin
F150 - summer Goodyear Wrangler Kevlar, winter Michelin X-Ice
CX-5 - summer Michelin Defender, winter Firemax 805 (came with the car)
Sienna - summer Nokian One, winter Nordman 9 studded
Tribeca - Goodyear Eagle, Winter Pirelli Scorpion
Ranger - god only knows off brand tires, with 2 winters for the rear (older son's beater truck)
 
My cousin's old house up a 1/2 -3/4 mile long driveway toward top of mountain he would clear a section at the bottom for "visitors". He also installed a phone/intercom thing so you cold call the house to come get picked up. Cell service was also not a thing back then.

He would take his Skidoo, studded and chained plow truck and come get you. He and his wife always had 4x4 with studded winter rtires for the daily.

I blew a front hub in my Explorer in spring time in the mud trying to get up there. Stopped that trip to house. Later in life he paved the driveway and did the heated driveway thing with insulation under and glycol filled tube. IIRC he did the pumps/tubes as geothermal drilled down.
Pavement won't work here, too steep. I would have to do concrete and back in 2017, the estimate was $20K. I can't imagine what it would be, now. I can drive up it with AWD on CC2's in a good EV, but after the snow kindof packs down and gets hard after a few trips up and down, even PDiddy can't do anything with something that slick and steep. FWD? Nothing would help, so I walk it.
 
Well, I tried to make it up my driveway. No dice. I will get a heckuva running start and then try it and think I will succeed, but my AWD cars on all-seasons just walked up it no issue. I will have to give credit though, it did far better than I thought. I made it 1/2 way up.
 
Okay, I full send yeeted this thing up that snowy hill. It was dicy, but it did go. Yes I used half my front yard as a runway. Whatever. I wanted to see if it could. It did.

See blurry security footage below. It looks so angry!


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Is it a completely straight driveway, or is there a curve on it?
If yes, have you considered backing up the driveway in your FWD car with snow tires?
That might help a bit without you needing to do your best Leroy Jenkins impersonation.
 
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