Are we worrying too much about our filters?

[Spector]

Ralph:

I think that everone would agree with the comments but unfortunately, most of the modern autos other components are not made to go the distance that a bypass filter can provide. Thus, although they do the job they are not practical for the ave driver that may see 200,000 miles if they keep the car 10-15 years. The transmission has failed by then, the rest is about to due to age more then mileage.

 

[satterfi]

It seems like that should be true, then I see a '72 Pinto going down the road!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spector:
Ralph:

I think that everone would agree with the comments but unfortunately, most of the modern autos other components are not made to go the distance that a bypass filter can provide. Thus, although they do the job they are not practical for the ave driver that may see 200,000 miles if they keep the car 10-15 years. The transmission has failed by then, the rest is about to due to age more then mileage.

---

 

[JohnBrowning]

I think that bypass filtration makes perfect sense and it does not need to be really expensive. I have looked at a filter made by Trasko LTD. It is simple and build on the work of others. It uses a TP like media but it is not TP. It also has a full flow mesh screen. It is sliglty larger then a conventional oil filter and mounts in the stock location. Their is no need to do any plumbing work. It is a sub micronic filter on the bypass portion and a 40 micron on the full flow side. THe case is finned for additional ooling and it is reusable. You have to buy new cartridge every 10,000 miles at a cost of $9. THe initial cost is $69-$79 and it comes with everything you need to get started. I have not tryed it yet but have plans to try this and Redline together. It produces the same results from what I have read as Amsoil system but it is more cost effective and requires no plumbing. Sorry I can not post the site. I think much of what has been said about filtration is true unless you are considering bypass filtration. I doubt most people will own their cars or trucks long enough to tell the difference between any of the filters Chapion lab makes ( they make alot of them)v.s. Baldwin, Hastings, Hard Driver etc..... On that same note we are not the average crowd here at theis site!

 

[keith]

John, I am about to install a Trasko on my wifes 1999 Grand Caravan, 3.3L. Got the oversized Trasko, just waiting to complete an Auto-RX treatment on the van. Unfortunately it will be about 8 months before I complete a 10K mile interval with the Trasko, so don't expect any results published here for a while.

Keith.

 

[Pablo]

Great points folks - let's face it we are here because we really think about oil and oil filtration. Do we worry TOO much - well let's put it this way I don't need Al's magic vitamins or the little blue pill....yet.

I like the example of the cam cover off or whatever...I like to know there is some screen door there to catch the chunks that fell in!

I also look at my TWO BIGA$$ filters as secondary bladders....extra oil, so to speak...better dilution if you catch my drift.....

[ May 06, 2003, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

 

[UncleS2]

I just looked at the Trasko website. Hmm...If only they didn't sell that #&*! fuel thing(magnetic induction on fuel, indeed!

), it'd really increase their credibility with me.

*Still*, the oil filter does look interesting, & they have a filter size to fit my car. Any reason I couldn't stretch the 10,000 miles to 12,000 or a bit more using BobZoil & maint dose of Auto-Rx or Lube Control? Hmm...~$10 filter replacement every 10-12K miles. Considering how much $$ I put in the gas tank(even at 34-37 mpg) seems silly to worry about that. $70-$80 new? My car, ~4 *full* tanks of Chevron Super unl.

Now, here I was, all satisfied with my Wix filter, & then I had to read about the Trasko. Guys, y'all are a bad influence on me!
Thanks!

 

[Spector]

I also looked at the trasko site. I don't quite understand how this all in one bypass unit works. the description does not address what happens when the oil is cold, does it go into bypass and let the oil flow, does it go to the finer filtering media etc. Also has no info on drain back valve. Based upon the number of filters available it seems that one size fits all in many groups. Is flow affected at all in this filter?

You know what they say about things that seem too good to be true?

 

[keith]

I saw the other thread before I ordered the Trasko. There it was stated that the internal valve was stuck in the open position - which is very strange. On my Trasko, the mechanism is quite smooth and I can't think of a way for it to get stuck. Well, if the valve were knocked out of its alignment I suppose, but I don't see how.

Here is how I think the Trasko works. The bypass filtering element is going to be restrictive, that is its nature. The full flow mesh has very little restriction. When the oil is pumping, I expect the internal valve to be partially opened, with most oil going to one full flow mesh filter and some oil going to the bypass filter. Note that the oil that goes through the bypass filter also goes through two mesh filters, one at the top and one at the bottom of the can.

So all of the oil is going through one mesh filter, and some small amount goes to the bypass filter and one extra mesh filter.

This thing is so **** simple. The only downside is the small capacity of the mesh filter. Particles that are big enough for the mesh to trap will more than likely end up there on the first pass through the filter. Particles that are smaller will circulate some number of times until they end up in the bypass element.

It will be a while before I have any real world results. The minivan is on its Auto-Rx treatment, then I will run dino for a few thousand miles, then synthetic and Trasko.

Maybe I should send this thing in to the big filter test here.

Keith.

 

[Eiron]

keith & John,
I'd be very interested to hear your upcoming experiences with the Trasko filters. Another member tried it (read it here) but wasn't pleased with the results.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Keith you hit the nail on the head. Most of the oil flow 90% goes through the full flow 40 micron screens. Only about 10% goes through the bypass portion at any given time. The site is poorly designed and hard to navigate in a fluid manner. Luckily I have a strong mechanical background so things like this come simple to me. One thing to be careful about. The case diemensions are larger then stock on the trasko filters. Make sure you have clearnace for the over sized filter. I have to stick with a smaller one because I do not have enough space to clear the next size up before the heat sinks would be hitting my block! If it helps Subaru LTD invented/developed it and then gave it to Trasko Ltd. out of Korea to make. Trasko is owned by Subaru wich is owned by Fuji Heavy Industry's which GM happens to own a huge chunk of. I just got a bounus check at work so I will be ordering one this weekend for the Dodge!!!!

 

[keith]

The Trasko, even the big one, fits comfortably on my wifes 1999 Grand Caravan, 3.3L V6. On the other hand, on my Cadillac Seville STS, I am not sure if even the small Trasko will fit. The oil filter fits snug into the oil pan area. These guys sell a Northstar remote filter mount:

Northstar remote oil filter

Way too pricey at $200 for the complete kit. Maybe I could just buy the $55 adapter plate and fabricate the plumbing.

Keith.

 

[Shannow]

Something that's been missed here is that most of the oil pumps that we deal with are positive displacement pumps.

With the exception of a small amount of internal leakage, the pumps shift the same amount of oil EVERY revolution.

If your filter is too restictive, then it will bypass - the same amount of oil as a filter manufactured with chook mesh would.

If it can't bypass, then it will wreck the media, or build pressure and find another way out of the circuit.

As to bypass filters (and I admit I'm planning on installing a few at work on some applications), the only thing that you can say in their favour is that they remove circulating debris. If the circulating debris is not a problem, then the bypass filters answer a non-question. Does a clean analysis with a bypass filter installed mean that the engine hasn't worn ?

 

[keith]

"Does a clean analysis with a bypass filter installed mean that the engine hasn't worn ?"

I would say not. But if the UOA shows low iron, silicon, etc. then the filter is doing its job.

The problem I could see is if the engine wear is high, e.g. bad air filtering, and the bypass filter makes the UOA look good. But then you should see the bypass filter get plugged up in a hurry. I will visually check the Trasko filter at 5K miles.

Keith.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Shannow, You will not reduce primary wear with bypass filtration. The key is that instead of letting those wear particules under 25-30 microns continue to run through the engine causeing yet more damage you get them out of the oil. You also get the soot/carbon out of their and some of the water! The filter is capable of submircronic filtration when working properly and if it has to bypass the bypass filtration and go with only full flow it can filter I belive down to 8 microns. If you keep a good airfilter in the vechile you should be fine! You can also save a fortune on oil changes. 10 oil and filter changes cost less then 33. You do not need to use synthetic oil to take advatage of this either. If bypass filtration did not work you would not see so many fleets installing them. OEm in Europe in the centrifacl type as an OEM part!