Are Turbos Hard on Oil?
- Thread starter AdmiralYoda
- Start date
that's epic data. Thanks for (re)posting. It sort of confounds some of my conventional wisdom around higher SAPS being better SAPS and that star polymers are always better than cheap OCPs.
It is possible the mid or lower SAPS oils can run even cleaner than full SAPS oils if given a premium base?
Hot Drain DIY Oil Change Guys: I’m gonna drive around and get my oil good and hot so flows better and gets all those nasty contaminants out.
~Oil now at over 200F~
Hot Drain DIY Oil Change Guys: Ouch! This oil is hot!
This is why I got the Valvo Max drain system.
It's a good quesiton I dont know the answer to. The only issue I can see with some of the ESP line or mid/SAP oils is the lower detergent levels. I don't know how confident I'd be running them too long. This is where M1 EP with more AO and detergetns may be better in longer drains than ESP.
Long drain oils are usually fortified with higher detergent levels (helps keeps engines clean) and some of the ESP line have only about 1,600ppm of Ca. However I'm not a formulator so who knows what they could be using in its place. I know the M1 Triple line apparenlty has a lot of dispersants.
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My confusion originates from some data that suggest that with longer OCIs some of the detergents can actually become a source of deposits. Indeed, the turbo deposit data from the Dexos testing shown above seems to hint at that very thing with the moly levels in particular.
This might be one thing where trimer really adds value because you get the desired results at lower treat rates.
This might be one thing where trimer really adds value because you get the desired results at lower treat rates.
I use the Stahlbus, which is quite similar (except my GX get the fumoto).
But when I do someone else's car, it's old school drain plug.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
ESP 0W30 has Ca above 1700. EP Ca level is just a bit over 600.
Also, ESP has VW504.00, which means it has to pass the 18k oil drain test.
Thanks. I was thinking of the new ESP 5w30 SP which has about 1,000ppm of Ca/477mg. ESP line seems to use POE where was EP uses AN. It's certainly possible the ESP line is better and would run cleaner than EP. I just have no way of knowing. Face value I'd lean towards ESP based on the stringent specs. M1 EP is rated for 20k miles.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Yes, 5W30 has a new Infineum add pack with lower Ca levels.
EP is rated 20k, but in which engine? Again, we have been here a few months ago, M1 puts a disclaimer saying to follow the manufacturer's recommended OCI.
I haven't seen it either.
@Blagoje are you referring to the UOA's that are posted on the Outback forum? Many of those are Blackstone so fuel is not even tested. There are many more UOA's on the FA20DIT on nasioc and the Forester forum, but the same situation applies. Viscosity loss from fuel contamination is not the same as mechanical shear.
Imagine doing two VOA's on the same oil and the oil from one of those samples is replaced with 5% fuel. Would you consider the likely viscosity loss in the VOA result as shearing out of grade?
I haven't seen it either.
@Blagoje are you referring to the UOA's that are posted on the Outback forum? Many of those are Blackstone so fuel is not even tested. There are many more UOA's on the FA20DIT on nasioc and the Forester forum, but the same situation applies. Viscosity loss from fuel contamination is not the same as mechanical shear.
Imagine doing two VOA's on the same oil and the oil from one of those samples is replaced with 5% fuel. Would you consider the likely viscosity loss in the VOA result as shearing out of grade?
Please forgive my inaccuracy, whether it be by mechanical shear or fuel dilution or whatever contributing circumstance my number one concern is loss of viscosity out of grade.
Perhaps if someone has actual expertise on the subject they can comment but I don't see what the point of continuously asking questions is especially if someone wants to act as if they are speaking from a position of authority or experience but is unwilling to share what they apparently claim to know that others don't. They might as well just get off the website if they're not going to make any effort to engage in good faith.
Or you can just continue to post inaccurate information and then cry when people with more expertise ask you about it. Your call.
If the oil was dark at 1000 miles this tells me a few things:Seems like a silly question, but I figured I'd ask anyways. We just picked up a used 2018 Chevrolet Equinox with 91k miles from a dealer. 1.5l Turbo LYX. Oil was freshly changed when we bought it....no signs of sludge from what I could see through the oil filler. Runs great. No complaints.
I just did the 1st oil change this past weekend at 1k miles to get the unknown dealer commodity stuff out of there and put in some Valvoline Restore and Protect to clean up any deposits. Unknown maintenance but I figured a few OCI's of VRP wouldn't hurt.
When we bought it the oil was brand new looking. After 1k miles it had darkened significantly on the dip stick and when i drained it it looked very dark, like it was due for an oil change. The other thing I was surprised at was how HOT the oil was!!! I normally take my vehicles for a short drive to get the oil good and warm/hot before changing.
This oil was super hot! I could barely turn the drain bolt by hand it was that hot. Surprised me a bit actually.
So that brings me to my question. Are turbo engines harder on oil than non-turbo engines? If so, what in the oil tends to wear down fastest? Does it shear faster than non-turbo'd engines? Does the oil oxidize faster? Anything else I'm not aware of? Just looking for some education. Thanks!
**EDIT** I should mention we don't drive the car aggressively but my wife does A LOT of short trips and idling. So for that, we fall in the severe maintenance category. I drive it to work once per week on the highway (45 miles each way) for the fun of it.
1) The OCI's were beyond what most of us do here.
2) Cheap Oil was Used
3) The oil was never checked between OCI's
I am positive on Number 1 and 2, Number 3 is kind of a guess.
Not necessarily. Some oils will darken very quickly due to the nature of the additive composition. I have found that M1's Triple Action oils will darken very, very quickly...even when used in well-maintained engines.
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
Yep, whatever temperature it reaches going up on ramps !
Which OTS API spec oil do you think would outperform M1 ESP 0W-30 for example? Aren't you running M1 ESP after Amsoil?
I'm not sure there is one. Comparing oils meeting different specs can be tricky. ESP is probably the better overall oil though based on the specs it meets. The EP oils are built for 20k mile drains though so they're also very good.
It don't believe it suggests that star polymers are significantly worse. Sure OCP performed a little better for the test but it's still just a test. There are other tests where OCP does worse so it's a constant balancing act between competing objectives. An other thing is that the additive package (High Moly, or avg detergent) had an even larger impact than the type of VII used.
Edit: What @buster has really shown us is that one should not use aftermarket moly additives in your turbo engine unless you change the oil more frequently.
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