Are Turbo's Hard on Oil?

[stormgol]

Turbo are very hard on oil during Summer. i experience volatility problems during summer since 2018 with every turbo Mazda i have owned.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

Short answer:
Absolutely.
this truism has been long known, this is my Turbo engines generally ( used to?) spec one or two grades thicker than the non turbo engines.
A turbo engine in summertime to me with me a Mobil1 15w-50 oil, or similar.
If non GDI and all long trips a 5w-40 might also do.

The 1.5L LYX specs 0W-20 and doesn't give you any other options (probably because they are after fuel efficiency). Sometimes the manual says for other parts of the world use 5W-30 or whatever, not in this case.

But it is out of warranty so I don't care. I was planning on a 0W-30 or 5W-30 just because. And having a common oil with my truck will make life a bit easier.

I'm leaning towards Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 at this point after a few OCI's of VRP. Seems to check a lot of the boxes and is available at Wally World which is a big plus.

 

[buster]

The 1.5L LYX specs 0W-20 and doesn't give you any other options (probably because they are after fuel efficiency). Sometimes the manual says for other parts of the world use 5W-30 or whatever, not in this case.

But it is out of warranty so I don't care. I was planning on a 0W-30 or 5W-30 just because. And having a common oil with my truck will make life a bit easier.

I'm leaning towards Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 at this point after a few OCI's of VRP. Seems to check a lot of the boxes and is available at Wally World which is a big plus.

ESP 0w30 is a great choice.

 

[rondhol]

Yes, it is hard to oil, but it is not new for European ACEA standard that works for both gasoline and diesel engines.
I will only use Group III oil or better for turbo engines.

 

[Propflux01]

The 1.5L LYX specs 0W-20 and doesn't give you any other options (probably because they are after fuel efficiency). Sometimes the manual says for other parts of the world use 5W-30 or whatever, not in this case.

But it is out of warranty so I don't care. I was planning on a 0W-30 or 5W-30 just because. And having a common oil with my truck will make life a bit easier.

I'm leaning towards Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 at this point after a few OCI's of VRP. Seems to check a lot of the boxes and is available at Wally World which is a big plus.

Wife’s KONA 1.6T is the same way. 0w-20 with no alternative. So naturally after the dealer change, I dropped the oil and filled with M1 ESP 0w-30. It seems to like it as well as my 2.5T CX-5.

 

[edyvw]

Turbos get hot. Hot oil leads to oxidation and deposits. Whether in the rings or turbo bearing and shaft. You always want the most thermally stable oil to prevent deposits.

No need to run a Euro oil. Euro oils are great and will be good for turbo but not needed. In fact, Pennzoil ranks PUP and QUP above Euro in high temperature performance.

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https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...tor-oil/turbocharger-performance-with-mobil-1

Which is nothing but marketing.

 

[Blagoje]

It's not really the turbo but rather the heat they generate which is the killer. My Subaru turbo engine starts to generate meaningful boost above 2000 RPM and you can watch the oil temp gauge very quickly go from something like 203°F to 10 degrees higher within seconds from just momentarily going above that threshold. The engine is equipped with an oil cooler and intercooler and I feel like they do everything they can to keep the motor oil around or below the 210-212°F range during normal operation to not stress out the oil too much.

With this engine if you run in the boost for too long you can see a serious spike in the oil temperature to make those on the thin side of the force very worried

 

[edyvw]

It's not really the turbo but rather the heat they generate which is the killer. My Subaru turbo engine starts to kick in meaningful boost above 2000 RPM and you can watch the oil temp gauge very quickly go from something like 203°F to 10 degrees higher within seconds from just momentarily going above that threshold. The engine is equipped with an oil cooler and intercooler and I feel like they do everything they can to keep the motor oil around or below the 210-212°F range during normal operation to not stress out the oil too much.

With this engine if you run in the boost for too long you can see a serious spike in the oil temperature to make those on the thin side of the force very worried

Oil should run hot. 220-230 is where you want the oil temperature.
Usually, when manufacturers keep oil temperature lower, it is an indication of some other issue they are trying to address with lower temperatures, or the cooling capacity cannot deal with higher temperatures so theya re keeping it there. The reason it spikes so fast is that the cooling capacity is inadequate for such high temperatures.

 

[buster]

Which is nothing but marketing.

How so and can you prove that? Pennzoil has the same chart for PUP vs their Euro as well. You seem to ignore that you can make an SP RC oil extremely good. There is nothing super special about Euro oils.

Most racing teams and engine builders are not running Amsoil or RL Euro oils. They're using SS and RL HP.

Marketing is the word BITOG folks like to use when they disagree with something they don't like.

 

[Blagoje]

Oil should run hot. 220-230 is where you want the oil temperature.
Usually, when manufacturers keep oil temperature lower, it is an indication of some other issue they are trying to address with lower temperatures, or the cooling capacity cannot deal with higher temperatures so theya re keeping it there. The reason it spikes so fast is that the cooling capacity is inadequate for such high temperatures.

Historically Subarus have not had the best cooling efficiency, their former popular 3.0L H6 naturally aspirated engine required 91 octane minimum to address this issue and it goes without saying that their higher performance engines with a turbo such as what is used with the WRX and STi cars require the same.

It is interesting because the current FA24F engine that is used in both the WRX and Outback (+Ascent & Legacy) differs primarily in tuning because the WRX version of the engine requires 91 octane minimum while the Outback version only requires 87 octane and there is a slight variation in power output.

When the weather is hot you better use a really terrific 0w20

 

[edyvw]

And there we have it, the word BITOG folks like to use when they disagree with something they don't like.

How so and can you prove that?

There is no how so.
Euro approvals are done by someone else, not the oil blender. Meaning oil has to meet a set of requirements set up by the other party.
For example, Triax claims that their Euro oils are "military grade." What does that mean? While not carrying any actual approval.
PUP is not available in Euro grades, except they had PUP 0W40, which was mediocre oil in every aspect.
That oil had 13% Noack (compared to PPE 0W40, which is MB229.5 and cannot exceed 10%).

Euro oils also have approvals in grades for which PUP is available, but none PUP oils are approved. Actually, Shell carries those approvals in Europe under the same name as here (SHell Helix Ultra-Pennzoil Platinum Euro), and they are different oils from PUP line here. There is no need for hyped marketing for Euro oils as approvals dictate OCI, performance, etc.

In the end, Mobil1 Euro oils don't have "triple action." Are they inferior to "triple action" oils from Mobil1?

 

[edyvw]

Historically Subarus have not had the best cooling efficiency, their former popular 3.0L H6 naturally aspirated engine required 91 octane minimum to address this issue and it goes without saying that their higher performance engines with a turbo such as what is used with the WRX and STi cars require the same.

It is interesting because the current FA24F engine that is used in both the WRX and Outback (+Ascent & Legacy) differs primarily in tuning because the WRX version of the engine requires 91 octane minimum while the Outback version only requires 87 octane and there is a slight variation in power output.

When the weather is hot you better use a really terrific 0w20

Are they coming with a fluid heat exchanger or a radiator-type oil cooler?

 

[buster]

There is no how so.
Euro approvals are done by someone else, not the oil blender. Meaning oil has to meet a set of requirements set up by the other party.
For example, Triax claims that their Euro oils are "military grade." What does that mean? While not carrying any actual approval.
PUP is not available in Euro grades, except they had PUP 0W40, which was mediocre oil in every aspect.
That oil had 13% Noack (compared to PPE 0W40, which is MB229.5 and cannot exceed 10%).

Euro oils also have approvals in grades for which PUP is available, but none PUP oils are approved. Actually, Shell carries those approvals in Europe under the same name as here (SHell Helix Ultra-Pennzoil Platinum Euro), and they are different oils from PUP line here. There is no need for hyped marketing for Euro oils as approvals dictate OCI, performance, etc.

In the end, Mobil1 Euro oils don't have "triple action." Are they inferior to "triple action" oils from Mobil1?

You'd have to compare them on the same tests. Apples/oranges to some extent. I would bet that Euro oils, any of them, couldn't match Amsoil SS in the IIIH test. Shear stability is built into the Euro grades whereas the RC grades are designed more around fuel economy. Doesn't make them worse. I'm talking about high temperature deposit protection.

Per Amsoil it's: SS, Euro, XL.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

Are turbo engines harder on oil than non-turbo engines?

Yes.

 

[tcp71]

Historically Subarus have not had the best cooling efficiency, their former popular 3.0L H6 naturally aspirated engine required 91 octane minimum to address this issue and it goes without saying that their higher performance engines with a turbo such as what is used with the WRX and STi cars require the same.

It is interesting because the current FA24F engine that is used in both the WRX and Outback (+Ascent & Legacy) differs primarily in tuning because the WRX version of the engine requires 91 octane minimum while the Outback version only requires 87 octane and there is a slight variation in power output.

When the weather is hot you better use a really terrific 0w20

Have a 3.6 H6 in the stable. Regular gas is fine in there. Same block as the 3.0 AFAIK.

I also have been running a twin turbo GDI engine for the last 8 years in the truck (hauling14k lbs around the rockies). Just got back from a 4000 mile trip through the Yukon and Alaska in that one. Ran like a top.

The oil in GDI engines has a tendency to turn black vs. brown due to the soot created by DI ignition. All this talk of coking is BS with coolant cooled turbo housings. The "old" turbo engines that had this problem used oil to cool the turbo, which isn't the case these days.

Modern engines use the knock sensor to adjust for octane ratings. They can all retard the timing to get by on 87 octane but don't make the power (or economy) they can get if rated for 91.

 

[edyvw]

There IS a how so you can't prove that by what you said. I would bet that Euro oils, any of them, couldn't match Amsoil SS in the IIIH test. You continue to overhype Euro oils as if they are some unique special oils. They're good for their intended application. That's it.

I just told you that their only PUP available oil in the same grades as Euro was mediocre at best.
Shell carries Euro approvals in those grades for which PUP is available, and none is available for sale in the US.
Their Euro line is available across the world, and interestingly carries the Ultra name elsewhere. It is positioned in Shell line up as their most advanced oils.
But cool story.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

ESP 0w30 is a great choice.

On a 1.5 litre with its low relative reciprocating mass, here a higher HTHS is likely not as urgently required as those other clanky 2.3 > 2.5 L four holers with high velocity big block V8 strokes and swinging rods.
The current 0w20 may be all the Admiral needs.
But a trial in situ will tell tales. Is the O.P up for the challenge? Many here likely would love to hear the results.

 

[buster]

I just told you that their only PUP available oil in the same grades as Euro was mediocre at best.
Shell carries Euro approvals in those grades for which PUP is available, and none is available for sale in the US.
Their Euro line is available across the world, and interestingly carries the Ultra name elsewhere. It is positioned in Shell line up as their most advanced oils.
But cool story.

Yeah cool story you continue to get wrong.

Mobil 1 EP could outlast ESP 5w30 and match it or exceed in in the IIIH test. Noack of about 8.6%. Does exceptional on TEOST, GM Turbo and IIIH as well.
Amsoil SS > Euro Line
RL HP > Euro.

PUP would absolutely do as well or better in high temp testing as Shell Euro 5w30. The Euro Shell 5w30 would offer a higher viscosity and more shear stability but that doesn't make it better by default. It means it's more shear stable.

 

[edyvw]

Yeah cool story you continue to get wrong.

Mobil 1 EP could outlast ESP 5w30 and match it or exceed in in the IIIH test.
Amsoil SS > Euro Line
RL HP > Euro.

PUP would absoluktely do as well or better in high temp testing as Shell Euro 5w30. The Euro Shell 5w30 would offer a higher viscosity and more shear stability but that doesn't make it better by default. It means it's more shear stable.

And where are those tests?

 

[buster]

Saying Euro oils are the end all be all because they meet some super inside secretive Euro spec is complete bs. LOL