Are synths actually better than conventionals?

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I`ve been wondering if synths are actually better than conventionals. Reason why,I know several people who`ve run nothing but dino and drive their cars HARD,and have a ton of miles.

02 Nissan Altima nearing 300k miles on Pennzoil 10W30.
90 Olds 88 w/400k+ miles on Pennzoil 10W30.
92 Nissan 300ZX twin turbo 350k miles GTX 20W50.
92 Nissan 300ZX twin turbo 250k miles Pennzoil 20W50.
91 Ford Probe 200k+ miles Pennzoil 10W50.
92 Dodge Stealth 200k+ miles GTX 20W50.

None of the above cars have any engine problems at all and are still driven very hard (with the exception of the Probe. Timing belt broke and car was sold).

Makes me wonder if dino is all we need? What do all the experts think?
 
I would say so unless you really can use the advantages of syn oil. Most who say the cars /trucks are driven hard really aren't.
 
Try this experiment:

Get a quart of synthetic and a quart of regular oil (both the same weight). Let sit out overnight on a cold winter night. The next morning pour a little of each into a container. Depending on the temperature you will see a NOTICIBLE difference in the flow rate. Going on the premise that most engine wear occurs at start-up, this should be a good reason to use synthetic. I saw a video of this done on two identical motorcycles left out overnight in cold weather with the oil cooler return line left disconnected. After starting both engines the regular oil took about 10 seconds to show up while the synthetic flowed out virtually immediately.
 
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Most would agree that synthetics are superior to conventional oil in every way. But most people arent going to realize the benefits doing 5K intervals.
 
Quote:

I`ve been wondering if synths are actually better than conventionals.

No reason to wonder. I've done 11,000 mile OCI in my Toyota with synthetic, something I would not do with conventional.
 
It's extremely hot and high loads on your engine. Synthetic does better.

It's extremely cold and your engine needs to start unaided. Synthetic does better.

Drain intervals are being prolonged beyond 5,000, 7,500 or even 10,000 miles. Synthetic does better

You spend change your oil every 5,000 miles or less regardless, and never want to spend more than $12 doing it. Synthetic...not so great.
 
I`m pretty ocd about my oil changes. I do it every 3000/3 months (whichever comes first).
 
Originally Posted By: bigjeffie
whatever floats your boat.


I believe I made that statemeny awile ago, and now you took it! Theif!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I'm not surprised the 300ZX's made it that far, that VG30DETT is one of the best built engines (in my opinion), I'm still surprised everyone uses such thick oils in them though! I know one that had 160,000 on it a few years ago using 5W30 (dunno if it was syn or conventional though), no problems with that engine either.
 
Questions to dino users:

If synthetics costed the same as dino, would you still buy dino?

If you can extend your oci's with synthetic wouldn't the cost per mile be the same or similar?

Do you ever consider the time savings of extending oci's over the life of a vehicle?

Do you ever consider the amount of oil & filters that can be saved over the life of your vehicle by using synthetic?
 
gasp

oh dear

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Sure they are. Problem is most people don't get the full benefit as they change it out too soon.
 
They're better, for me its just the fact that if I walk out one morning and its 20* or colder I know I will have oil flowing a lot faster than any conventional oil. That to me is worth the extra cost. With that in mind I still run Dino in my some of my vehicles, so I guess I'm a hypocrite.

Frank D
 
There are times when I think the words like "better" or "best" should be blocked from this site. They are so subjective, because they are used without clear definition.

Q: "are synths actually better than conventionals?"
A: "depends ..."

Better at what?
Temp extremes? Probably. I'll give two examples. Extreme cold. I apologize; I meant E X TR E M E COLD. Like WELL below freezing cold. In this case, a group III, IV, or V will pump a bit easier, getting up to pressure a bit sooner. However, zero degress-F and a conventional 5-30 can still get along quite well. Or, look at extreme heat. By extreme, I mean WELL past the designed operating temps for the application. Example: I have had the misfortune of having two of my vehciles overheated from failed cooling systems. My wife's van (water pump) and my father's Taurus (freeze plug). Both went into the red zone and were driven way farther than they should have been before shut down. My Taurus coked up the rings (see oil additive thread by me) because it was on conventional oil. The van, however, didn't coke up; it was running on synthetic (PP at the time, IIRC). Subsequent compression tests conducted showed that the synthetic tolerated the extreme temp better. BUT - IF YOUR ENGINE NEVER SEES THESE EXTREMES, THEN "SYNTHS" ARE NOT NEEDED! I don't believe it's fair to blame a conventional oil for failure when unrelated mechanical failure was the root cause. Had the Taurus been pulled over immediately, there likely would have not been any ring coking. So the answer here is a Syn might be "better", but only if you allow some undesirable condition to occur. If not, then a conventional oil will do just fine.

Better at what?
Wear Protection? Probably not. There are many, many used oil analysis that show good wear results with "conventional" oils. The thing about wear protection is that it is always a matter of changing ANY oil before contamination, oxidation, insolubles and such degrade the oil to a point of ill-advised continued use. I want to be careful in my description of wear protection here. I mean to say that an engine/oil combination that is studied in long term statistical analysis using consistent used oil analysis and looking at ranges and trends. Anyone can show a one-time post where brand X performed better than brand Y or brand Z, but these are meaningless unless the variables are controlled. Too many people use a single UOA as justification to use or reject an oil. Too many people here hop-scotch from one brand to another, with the misunderstanding of how used oil analysis should be used.

Better at what?
Lasting longer? Probably so. Here is where "synthetics" really shine. They can take the environment for a longer period of exposure. If you run long OCI's, use premium filtration, and used oil analysis, and drive many miles a year, then SYN's are probably a good fiscal decision. But if you can't mentally get over the hump of the 3 month/3k mile OCI, and/or you only drive 10k miles a year or less, then Syn's benefits are not realized. Period.

So is it right to choose a synthetic over a conventional? It depends on the appliation. My 1966 Mustang which is used for summertime Sunday cruising, for a total of 500 miles a year, DOES NOT qualify for synthetic in my fleet. Nor does my rototiller, or other low-use, limited extreme equipment.

However, my wife's van (previously noted risk!), my truck (winter 4x4 and summer towing of travel-trailer) do see greater risk and/or length of OCI service, so I choose the advantage of synthetics.

There is no right or wrong answer; there is an appropriate answer for each vehicle, in a specified environment, with a recognized risk level.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3

There is no right or wrong answer; there is an appropriate answer for each vehicle, in a specified environment, with a recognized risk level.


The best answer I've read so far.
 
You make some great points, and two of my 4 vehicles run on Dino, and will continue too. They're old and if they blew up tomorrow its off to the junk yard. I guess the debate will go on and on. I equate it to "Insurance," and so many people are over "Insured". In my 2 favorite vehicles which are pampered I use synthetic oil. I guess its like being over insured for me. Those cold snaps where it might be 0* or below, I know the synthetic will flow faster. Or that one time where an over-heat condition occurs and the vehicle has to be driven a little longer to safely exit, having the peace of mind that the oil can stand up is that extra margin of insurance. I guess its like buying an extended warranty, and many times extended warranties are a waste until that one time you wish you bought it.

Frank D
 
I guess it's what this site is about that as soon as one thread on this topic gets a week old and disappears, another starts.

Maybe what Bruce was alluding to is the idea that the superior properties of synthetics don't translate into better real-world performance because the properties and additives in any good oil are sufficient to protect the engine as well as any other.

Cold flow? You are all aware that anti-wear additives adhere to metal surfaces and that in addition some oil film remains even after sitting: it seems as though these two factors make the issue of startup flow irrelevant if the correct grade is used. Otherwise you would see wear differences in UOA - which you don't.

Is synthetic better? No reason to believe so in the real world unless long drains are involved as far as I can tell.
 
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