Are synthetics any better at handling short trips?

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: TugaSaudade
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Guys lets stick to facts...

Syn oil is no more "slippy" than any other oil of the same weight.

Syn oil does not flow any faster than conventional until you get well below zero of the same weight.

Syn oil does not "stick" any more to parts than any other oil. If its "slippy" and flows better how can it stick if that is true?

Short trips mean one thing, more frequent oil changes to get the byproducts and water out of the engine.

Marketing aside if your vehicle needs syn or you want to run it fine, but don't think what was posted above is going to make the engine last any longer over conventional oils.

And freq oil changes WILL do something more than wives tales...

My 3 cents... Bill

PS: The same type of question was asked here a few days ago. Spending some time reading the board will help you...


Bill in Utah, FWIW, the knowledge that a true syn has better "clinging" properties was explained to me by 2 Castrol engineers, due to a more uniform molecular structure compared to conventional oil.. there are also a few oils available that have recognised polar properties, i'm sure far more are available in the US..
But i agree that in a short trip scenario, shorter OCI's will counter the water and fuel dilution in oil, and minimize shear..

If the OP decides going that way, a syn oil would then be a waste of money in short OCI's.. JMO


Tuga, to chime in with Bill here, short trips -dont- Fuel Dilute that much. Idling does that... as well as engine issues?

You need Magic Oil to solve that one, if its happening. Someone said Shell Helix made the Oil nto smell like gas in that situation, IIRC.

Therefore, Shell Helix is Magic Oil.

 

[Thermo1223]

Quote:
Guys lets stick to facts...

Ok lets
Quote:
Syn oil is no more "slippy" than any other oil of the same weight.

Grey area I'll give you that.

Quote:
Syn oil does not flow any faster than conventional until you get well below zero of the same weight.

Nope, not a fact.
Quote:

Syn oil does not "stick" any more to parts than any other oil. If its "slippy" and flows better how can it stick if that is true?

Certain esters do and they are synthetic.

Quote:
Short trips mean one thing, more frequent oil changes to get the byproducts and water out of the engine.


True.

Quote:
Marketing aside if your vehicle needs syn or you want to run it fine, but don't think what was posted above is going to make the engine last any longer over conventional oils.


That depends on a lot of things, not just oil but it has been proven time & again synthetic will last longer under a variety of circumstances.

Quote:
And freq oil changes WILL do something more than wives tales...


True but where are these tales?

 

[il_signore97]

Contrary to what Bill has posted, I have also found that under very severe, very short trip service, a good synthetic oil "can" last longer in service while maintaining engine cleanliness than a comparable conventional oil.

These facts (in my case) were determined by many UOAs, thanks to my mother who drives a whopping 1.5 miles to work, 4 times per day, in both hot and very cold weather.

Now, whether the small increase in life of the oil justifies the increased cost of the synthetic over the conventional is a totally different story, and one that the OP would have to determine himself. However, there are always the intageables, like the higher VI of the syn oil to help with greater oil flow in those very cold months of short tripping, cleanliness over longer OCI's, less time spent changing oil (especially in cold months), etc, etc.

The facts are the facts, but the choice is personal.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: HangerHarley
short trips -dont- Fuel Dilute that much.

They do because:
1. Short trip means cold engine = rich fuel mixture. More fuel in the system means more of it gets into the oil.

2. Now, if this was a longer trip, this fuel would have had a chance to burn off, but because it is a short trip, it doesn't. It just keeps accumulating.

 

[FZ1]

Synthetic oil is better oil and short trips are severe service. Top of my '02 V6 Accord is perfectly clean at 108k on synthetic.

 

[Thermo1223]

Just to throw some fuel up here.

http://www.godosoot.com/chris/Accent_1.jpg

This what happens when you short trip the [censored] out of something in the winter. I could smell the gasoline in the oil at the end the OCI.

I must have fudged the odometer reading somehow though because before that it was Napa 5w30 Syn during the spring/summer again out to 5,000 and it had nothing left as far as TBN went.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: ryan2022

Now im guessing most OCI's would stay pretty similiar regardless of oil under short trip use.



..but you haven't really told us what you're calling a "short trip".

I think you should give us "a day in the life of my wife's ride" to get the enhanced feedback. Time spans between jaunts ..etc.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
That depends on a lot of things, not just oil but it has been proven time & again synthetic will last longer under a variety of circumstances.


Mostly true. Synthetic oils tend to be more durable in a couple of ways that conventional couldn't match. That gap is getting compressed a good bit. For many this makes the difference ..not much difference at all.

There is no such thing as magic oil. Synthetics tend to remain viable longer under stress ..at least fundamentally. Terms and conditions can alter that view.

In this situation its YMMV. Did the blender design this synthetic to go longer under both time and/or mileage? Not all synthetics are designed for extended drains ..and that would include most of what's considered severe service.

 

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Just to throw some fuel up here.

http://www.godosoot.com/chris/Accent_1.jpg

This what happens when you short trip the [censored] out of something in the winter. I could smell the gasoline in the oil at the end the OCI.

I must have fudged the odometer reading somehow though because before that it was Napa 5w30 Syn during the spring/summer again out to 5,000 and it had nothing left as far as TBN went.


It always sucks when the dipstick smells like gasoline.

What is a good way to remedy that?

And IS there an Oil that can "Stand up" to the Dilution better? (If you had an engine that was throwing so much fuel in the engine that it smelled up the oil to Gas?)

 

[Gary Allan]

I don't think I've ever changed oil that didn't have some hint of fuel to it. I think we'd have a hard time defining "heavy fuel smell" with what is common.

I haven't seen any oil smelling parties around here lately. Where the bouquet between various drained oils can be experienced by oil sniffing connoisseurs. Perhaps one is a critic and publishes his/her findings.

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: HangerHarley


It always sucks when the dipstick smells like gasoline.

What is a good way to remedy that?

And IS there an Oil that can "Stand up" to the Dilution better? (If you had an engine that was throwing so much fuel in the engine that it smelled up the oil to Gas?)


Well GC seemed to fairly well but on here RLI is what the Audi guys are using in the 2.0t to combat massive fuel issues.

The remedy in my situation is to drive longer in the winter lol

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
The remedy in my situation is to drive longer in the winter lol


^^2nd. Alot of times I`ll take the "long" way home from work :^)

 

[ryan2022]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: ryan2022

Now im guessing most OCI's would stay pretty similiar regardless of oil under short trip use.



..but you haven't really told us what you're calling a "short trip".

I think you should give us "a day in the life of my wife's ride" to get the enhanced feedback. Time spans between jaunts ..etc.


Hi Gary,

yeah, I guess youre right. Basically, she drives roughly 8 miles to work in the morning. Some days she does the same back home, but probably 3 days a week, she'll drive roughly 3 miles into town, park, 2 miles to the grocery store, park.... etc.... This is at least twice a week, even in the winter. Then she'll drive the 8-10 miles back home. Not her fault, its just our schedule.

To me thats short trip driving. Its not terrible, because she usually ends the day with a 10 minute blast on the highway at 60 or so.

FWIW, her severe service in the maintenance schedule calls for 3K 3months

That seems extreme to me, but she only puts 5K every 6 months, and I dont want to go longer than that. Thats why Ive always leaned towards synthetic every 6 months as a comprimise. I started thinking about Kendall blend as a comprimise. Maybe I should go back to 3 changes a year on dino.

 

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Originally Posted By: HangerHarley


It always sucks when the dipstick smells like gasoline.

What is a good way to remedy that?

And IS there an Oil that can "Stand up" to the Dilution better? (If you had an engine that was throwing so much fuel in the engine that it smelled up the oil to Gas?)


Well GC seemed to fairly well but on here RLI is what the Audi guys are using in the 2.0t to combat massive fuel issues.

The remedy in my situation is to drive longer in the winter lol


is RLI "RedLine?"

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Basically, she drives roughly 8 miles to work in the morning. Some days she does the same back home, but probably 3 days a week, she'll drive roughly 3 miles into town, park, 2 miles to the grocery store, park.... etc.... This is at least twice a week, even in the winter. Then she'll drive the 8-10 miles back home. Not her fault, its just our schedule.


Okay. I just wanted to see if this was soccer parent duty. There the short trips are more akin to taxi service where there is about one true cold start for the day ..and while the oil may "tier" upward in temp with each successive event (crossing over to moisture evacuation in terms of processing blow by water content), most of the driving is out of fuel enrichment. That accounts for most of your filter loading.

I'd say that her two day a week excursions could probably be grouped as one longer event.


Quote:
Thats why Ive always leaned towards synthetic every 6 months as a comprimise.


6months works for most people. I think that this car will fall within the envelope that most oils provide; synthetic or conventional.

I think the swapping cars thing would be a good idea. I would think a day or two every other week would be of decent benefit. Naturally I'd like to see just one UOA under her current usage with the current oil.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: HangerHarley
is RLI "RedLine?"


I think it`s Renewable Lubricants. I may be wrong though.

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm


I think it`s Renewable Lubricants. I may be wrong though.


Yes that is what I meant, sorry if the acronym is wrong.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Okay, Guess we are past anything useful.

Any comments, PM me.

UPDATE: I've removed the silly posts that are not needed and reopened this thread.

Let's KEEP it on subject!

Bill