Are "full-flow" filters really full flow?

[AuthorEditor]

Quote:
^^^ Definitely ... a filter could never achieve 99.9% at 20 microns even with a minuscule leak.

I bet those test filters are very carefully inspected and massaged to be just about perfect. Grab one off the shelf in WalMart and run it on a real engine for a few thousand miles and what's the efficiency like? Also, what about all the lesser filters people are running--ones with combo valves, dicey looking bypass valves, and basically no sealing between the valve and the end cap?

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Quote:
^^^ Definitely ... a filter could never achieve 99.9% at 20 microns even with a minuscule leak.

I bet those test filters are very carefully inspected and massaged to be just about perfect. Grab one off the shelf in WalMart and run it on a real engine for a few thousand miles and what's the efficiency like? Also, what about all the lesser filters people are running--ones with combo valves, dicey looking bypass valves, and basically no sealing between the valve and the end cap?


The filter manufactures check their competitors and would have a field day if the tests didn't represent the product on the shelf.

 

[AuthorEditor]

Quote:
The filter manufactures check their competitors and would have a field day if the tests didn't represent the product on the shelf.

I can't speak for the filter industry, but in other industries I know much better it is just the opposite. The unwritten rules of the game are that everyone pushes the envelope when describing their products and all parties look the other way with regards to testing protocols and real-world usage. There is lots of verbiage thrown around, but no real, independent and rigorous testing. I'm not picking on Wix, but try to find any clear explanation of how they test filters, what the efficiency is, or how they compare to other brands on their website. This is about as close as I could get:

Quote:
In fact, WIX oil filters increase engine life, because their technologically advanced construction captures 45 percent more dirt and lasts 30 percent longer than the leading brand.

 

[steveh]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Quote:
^^^ Definitely ... a filter could never achieve 99.9% at 20 microns even with a minuscule leak.

I bet those test filters are very carefully inspected and massaged to be just about perfect. Grab one off the shelf in WalMart and run it on a real engine for a few thousand miles and what's the efficiency like? Also, what about all the lesser filters people are running--ones with combo valves, dicey looking bypass valves, and basically no sealing between the valve and the end cap?


The filter manufactures check their competitors and would have a field day if the tests didn't represent the product on the shelf.
Never seen any filter manufacturer have a field day with the PureOne 99.9% claim or maybe it never tore during the test.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Quote:
^^^ Definitely ... a filter could never achieve 99.9% at 20 microns even with a minuscule leak.

I bet those test filters are very carefully inspected and massaged to be just about perfect. Grab one off the shelf in WalMart and run it on a real engine for a few thousand miles and what's the efficiency like? Also, what about all the lesser filters people are running--ones with combo valves, dicey looking bypass valves, and basically no sealing between the valve and the end cap?


How can they "message" one to make it better when machines manufacture and assemble them in a sealed state? This isn't a ringer car submitted to Car & Driver for testing.

I know a test lab that will test filters per ISO 4548-12 is you want to buy some off the self and pay big bucks to have them independently tested

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Quote:
The filter manufactures check their competitors and would have a field day if the tests didn't represent the product on the shelf.

I can't speak for the filter industry, but in other industries I know much better it is just the opposite. The unwritten rules of the game are that everyone pushes the envelope when describing their products and all parties look the other way with regards to testing protocols and real-world usage. There is lots of verbiage thrown around, but no real, independent and rigorous testing. I'm not picking on Wix, but try to find any clear explanation of how they test filters, what the efficiency is, or how they compare to other brands on their website. This is about as close as I could get:

Quote:
In fact, WIX oil filters increase engine life, because their technologically advanced construction captures 45 percent more dirt and lasts 30 percent longer than the leading brand.


WIX will not divulge their test specs ... I've asked them, and they are 'secret'. Makes you wonder what spec they use, if any. It probably isn't ISO 4548-12, or they would be proud to say so to the consumer.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Quote:
^^^ Definitely ... a filter could never achieve 99.9% at 20 microns even with a minuscule leak.

I bet those test filters are very carefully inspected and massaged to be just about perfect. Grab one off the shelf in WalMart and run it on a real engine for a few thousand miles and what's the efficiency like? Also, what about all the lesser filters people are running--ones with combo valves, dicey looking bypass valves, and basically no sealing between the valve and the end cap?


How can they "message" one to make it better when machines manufacture and assemble them in a sealed state? This isn't a ringer car submitted to Car & Driver for testing.

I know a test lab that will test filters per ISO 4548-12 is you want to buy some off the self and pay big bucks to have them independently tested


Maybe slip the test tech ten hundreds to message in your favor, as he writes down the result? Reset all instruments, clean and put away everything, and there it is, a nice report.

 

[AuthorEditor]

By "massaged" I mean have your best line run with a carefully inspected batch of filter material, parts, etc. Have them carefully inspected before being tested. I can't imagine they just grab any old filter off the shelf in Walmart and have it tested. We should get Consumer Reports to do that and test some popular brands!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
By "massaged" I mean have your best line run with a carefully inspected batch of filter material, parts, etc. Have them carefully inspected before being tested. I can't imagine they just grab any old filter off the shelf in Walmart and have it tested. We should get Consumer Reports to do that and test some popular brands!


They still can't see if everything is perfectly assembled and sealed inside unless they X-ray it or something. They could only do an outside inspection, which wouldn't say much really about the inside.

Most huge filter manufacturers have test labs and test machines to do their own ISO 4548-12 testing. So I'm sure they make sure filters off the line will meet the specs they are advertising.

 

[goodtimes]

They could though throw away a bad report and pick the best one tested. Or a competitor could pick a bad report and throw away the good reports. I don't think they can test one filter from Walmart shelves and then say that's it.