Are companies required to prove oil caused a problem?

[Motor oil rookie]

So if they say you changed your oil yourself that's why you have engine problem, can we demand from them proof and thorough investigation that oil caused the problem? Like convincing proof. If Oil pan looks super clean, filter looks clean, oil looks clean and internals of engine look clean, then on what basis they could deny warranty?
I simply hate going to the dealer. They are crooks. They overcharge and never do a good oil change. When they spilled oil in the engine bay I decided no more.
Thank you!

 

[Exhaustgases]

If each change was fully on video they would have a problem if they denied it.

 

[dnewton3]

OP -

This isn't just as simple as "I changed oil and you have to prove I did something wrong."
There are a slew of whatifs and yabuts implied in your question.

There are plenty of reasons the company(ies) can deny/delay a warranty claim if you change your own oil.
There are plenty of reasons the company(ies) cannot deny/delay a warranty claim if you change your own oil.

Your underlying question is that of the burden of proof in regard to a warranty claim. This burden can shift between warrantor and consumer, depending upon many things including but not limited to:
- conditions of warranty (limited or unlimited; written or implied)
- specifications of product suitability
- specifications of product applicability
- implications between OEM and lubricant makers
- implications of 3rd party products (filters; additives; etc)

Read and learn about the Magnuson/Moss Warranty Act, and the surrounding administrative laws as governed by the FTC.
Pay special attention to the concept of "tie in sales"; read not just the law, but also the administrative rulings which clarify ambiguities in the law and/or refine the applicability of the law.

https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law

https://www.meenanlawfirm.com/2015/05/ftc-revises-interpretation-of-magnuson-moss-warranty-act-2/

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-I/subchapter-G/part-700


When you follow the warranty provisions to the letter, and you have proof you did so, then the OEM will generally honor warranty.
If you didn't follow the warranty provisions, the OEM can ask for proof that your actions taken and products selected would not cause the failure in question. If you cannot provide that proof, they can delay/deny a claim.

The OEM very likely has a specification for oil for the application. Use oil licensed to standard "123ABC".
The OEM very likely has a specification for the duration of oil use. Change oil when "X" happens (so many miles; IOLM; severe conditions; etc).
The OEM can ask for proof that you followed the conditions above. You may have to provide purchase receipts and maintenance records.
If you followed all the conditions and have proof, then the burden shifts to the OEM to prove why they would not have to cover the failure.
But if you didn't have that proof, or more specifically, used products that didn't meet the suitability and application, then they can turn it around on you and ask you to prove that your choices didn't cause the failure. Same goes for maintenance tasks performed or delayed.

What you need to understand is that the burden of proof is very fluid and shifts with many nuances inherently underlying in your question.

 

[Glenda W.]

All depends how honest the dealer is.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The laws are that there supposed to show your action or inaction caused the problem.

Unfortunately they have more lawyers than you do, and you getting a lawyer would cost more than the repair. So they know they already won.

 

[Donald]

However the bulk of engine problems are probably not worn bearings or rings. If the ECM breaks they cannot blame it on the wrong oil was used.

 

[Marcozi]

Documentation is key. Keep a log book of your maintenance actions. Keep your receipts for the lubricants and the filters. Someone wrote about vid'ing the maintenance action. That's a good idea.

 

[Nessism1]

Internal engine problems within the warranty period of most vehicles is extremely rare. Kia/Hyundai and GM V8's, excepted.

Has anyone ever heard of a case where an OEM denied warranty responsibility because of an oil change?

 

[SC Maintenance]

However the bulk of engine problems are probably not worn bearings or rings. If the ECM breaks they cannot blame it on the wrong oil was used.

ECM seldom fails in warranty

The list of engine problems on new vehicles is long - and seemingly growing.

 

[ATex7239]

I had GM replace a transmission under warranty with just receipts and the fluid being clean and full. I think some folks concern with warranty denial is over blown worrying for nothing. Yes it could and has happened. But what’s worrying going to change? Keep your receipts and records. That’s all you can control.

 

[Pablo]

The very short answer is YES. In normal manufacturer warranty cases, they cannot (but do) simply say your "DIY oil changes caused the failure." They would need, solid, scientific proof that would hold up to detailed scrutiny if they made this claim. They are simply hoping the customer folds like a cheap suit - many do.

I or my customers have never had a problem, but Amsoil will assist and stand with the customer if a dealer or manufacturer tries such chicanery.

 

[eljefino]

The dealer, as representative of the manufacturer, can and will say "it's your fault."

It will then be like walking through quicksand trying to get them to change their minds. There's no magical incantation you as a customer can say that will change their minds. If they say no, consult a lawyer. People saying "I'm going to sue you" aren't taken seriously. People who actually sue, will be. If they say no, get as much documentation out of them as you can before you quietly disappear to do your next steps through the legal process.

There's possibly a middle ground in small claims court that a savvy customer could exploit without using a lawyer. The lawyer will cost about as much as the engine; that's how the manufacturers get away with this.

 

[Glenda W.]

The very short answer is YES. In normal manufacturer warranty cases, they cannot (but do) simply say your "DIY oil changes caused the failure." They would need, solid, scientific proof that would hold up to detailed scrutiny if they made this claim. They are simply hoping the customer folds like a cheap suit - many do.

I or my customers have never had a problem, but Amsoil will assist and stand with the customer if a dealer or manufacturer tries such chicanery.

Huge benefit! Not many boutiques offer this and it’s a consideration when leaving officially approved oils.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

At the selling Dealer(s) I have had:

1) Oil not changed with fresh oil added on top of used
2) Oil drained but not refilled.
3) Drain plug not tightened (just recently)
4) Drain plug and/or filter and or Oil fill Cap excessively overtightened
5) 6 quart fill and charge on R.O. (4.7qt capacity w/ filter)

I feel a video doc is outright silly and unnecessary.

 

[Donald]

With an OLM can they look back and see each time the OLM was reset and at what mileage? In the vehicles onboard computer.

 

[Motor oil rookie]

Are pictures of receipts, pictures of oil change, a note of following the torque specs, and report to Carfax enough to protect myself?
How do you guys service your car that is under warranty?
Thank you

 

[Glenda W.]

Are pictures of receipts, pictures of oil change, a note of following the torque specs, and report to Carfax enough to protect myself?
How do you guys service your car that is under warranty?
Thank you

If they ask for receipts it all depends what’s on those receipts. A dishonest dealer will use everything against you from viscosity to non approved oils. The dealer I worked at wouldn’t even pursue oil related failure if everything looked good during disassembly. I’ve seen other dealers ask for receipts before inspection.

 

[Motor oil rookie]

If they ask for receipts it all depends what’s on those receipts. A dishonest dealer will use everything against you from viscosity to non approved oils. The dealer I worked at wouldn’t even pursue oil related if everything looked good during disassembly. I’ve seen other dealers ask for receipts before inspection.

What is the need for dishonesty from the dealer when they are paid for the warranty work by the manufacturer?

 

[Glenda W.]

What is the need for dishonesty from the dealer when they are paid for the warranty work by the manufacturer?

Not 100% sure. My dealer was pretty honest. I do know warranty work doesn’t pay well. Also the dealer gets audited from time to time. If warrantied parts are tested and operate correctly the dealer won’t get paid at all. We had a room full of warrantied parts until GM said it was okay to discard.

 

[Pablo]

What is the need for dishonesty from the dealer when they are paid for the warranty work by the manufacturer?

Really no margin compared to selling parts and labor