Anyone use Red Line's Water Wetter?

[Kestas]

A respected automotive engineering magazine pointed out that Calcium present in tap water acts as a mild poison in automotive cooling systems.

As far as running straight water, I had an opportunity to analyze in detail a few warranty field return engines with low miles where the owner decided to run straight water, supposedly because water does a superior job of heat transfer. What the owners didn't count on was the nucleant boiling that occurs when there's no antifreeze in the coolant. The combination of low pressure from the suction side of the water pump and low boiling point of the coolant resulted in cavitation from nucleant boiling that pounded away at the aluminum walls, eroding the water jacket until the walls got thin and sprung a leak. Curiously, most of these engines were from Texas.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what happened to the Viper engine.

 

[Jimbo]

It works! I just changed the BMW over to 20/80 Prestone and dionized water with a botte of Water Wetter. A climb up California route 330 (5000 ft in 13 miles) with the temperature gauge not moving at all. Two weeks ago the same drive pushed the needle up 3/4 of the way.

 

[VaderSS]

quote:

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What the owners didn't count on was the nucleant boiling that occurs when there's no antifreeze in the coolant.

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That is exactly what Water Wetter prevents.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jimbo:
It works! I just changed the BMW over to 20/80 Prestone and dionized water with a botte of Water Wetter. A climb up California route 330 (5000 ft in 13 miles) with the temperature gauge not moving at all. Two weeks ago the same drive pushed the needle up 3/4 of the way.

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Very cool! Not too surprised though.

BTW, Does anyone know the freeze protection on 80/20,70/30, and 60/40 coolant/water? The bottle only lists down to 50/50. I'd like to get a little better cooling but winters can get cold here.

And about that Viper...What VaderSS said.
Plus I imagine it has a very large capacity...did he add proper amount? Probably needs more than 1 bottle. Also RL recommends replenishing or replacing every 15,000 miles, and chaging cooling system every year.

 

[Flashlightboy]

I've been lurking for quite a while and I've decided to come out of my cave and become a member. And I thought that I was the only one who could spend hours at Pep Boys looking at oil and filters. Now I'm comfortable knowing that I'm not the only goofball out there.

I've been using Water Wetter in both of my cars and I'm quite happy with it. Some antifreeze containers list other freeze protection levels besides 50/50 but I don't think it goes beyond 60/40 or 40/60.

I'm running 60/40 water/Havoline Extended Life without any heating problems with protection to -10 degrees. I went with this blend because it doesn't freeze in SoCal and summer temps do get up to 100+ in the summer.

This is a very civilized DB and I'm looking forward to hopefully contributing to some of the posts and learning more from the other members.

[ August 07, 2003, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Flashlightboy ]

 

[Flashlightboy]

mph,

Thanks for the info. These numbers seem low; I'm assuming they for the solution alone without the benefit of a radiator cap.

Depending on the pressure, wouldn't the boiling point increase 20-30 degrees?

 

[mph]

quote:

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Originally posted by Flashlightboy:

Depending on the pressure, wouldn't the boiling point increase 20-30 degrees?

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There's a calculator for BP of pure water as a function of atmospheric pressure here . Since it's mostly for people cooking at elevation, pressures are absolute, not gauge, so you want to add an atmosphere to your cap rating. 1 atm = 760 mmHg = 14.7 psi.

Ah, nevermind. Closer inspection reveals that it's only meant for pressures near atmospheric. I haven't found a good table/calculator for higher pressures, nor for water/glycol mixtures. But I'll leave this here just in case you're curious. I suspect that your guess is in the ballpark.

 

[Flashlightboy]

mph,

This info comes from the Sierra site:

Water Freeze Point (Ice Crystals Form) Boiling
Point
40% 60% -4°F 249°F*
50% 50% -26°F 256°F*
60% 40% -54°F 261°F*
66% 34% -76°F 262°F*
*Closed System; 14 psi caps

I think some cars are running 16 psi caps so the numbers should be higher but this seems like a good start.

 

[mph]

Table of freezing points for glycol/water solutions

 

[terryr]

I heard that Water Wetter was designed for firefighting waterbombers. It is added to the tanks to keep the water on the trees longer. It makes water 'wetter'. If you watch video of them the water does seem pinkish sometimes.
I'll bet they buy drums of it fairly cheap.

 

[Leo]

quote:

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Originally posted by terryr:
I heard that Water Wetter was designed for firefighting waterbombers. It is added to the tanks to keep the water on the trees longer. It makes water 'wetter'. If you watch video of them the water does seem pinkish sometimes.
I'll bet they buy drums of it fairly cheap.

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I think you're a bit confused. The red colour in Water Wetter is simply a dye. Proof? Their diesel WW is blue! Also they state that WW looses its colour when added to the coolant...

Also WW merely reduces the surface tension of water. So in theory (IMO), it would run off the trees quicker due to unable to hold on to one another...Also I highly doubt the good ol trees will benefit from the anti-corrotion additives of WW

 

[rob-the-oil-nut]

I have it and use it. Have another bottle for (possible) flush in 2004!
Two stories: 1) Rushed home with hot food, wanted to get it on the table ASAP, washed hands and chowed down. 1/2 hr later I realized the car had been idling all that time. Heat guage needle was normal. Black car, black hood, 36 C out.
2) Mopar mini-van stalled with the hood up in median lane, I put on my '4-way flashers' and pull up behind him, offer cell phone, etc. He said it had just overheated and needed to cool down a bit. I reach in my car and show him my RedLine hat. Company name on front, WaterWetter is on back. He said he'd make a point of buying it and had heard of it / them (In Winnipeg?! Maybe he was lying

I for one believe in it. (I use it with the usual antifreeze mix)
BTW I think it's worth it to go to a store and spend a buck or two on distilled or RO water and use that after a bi-annual flush or whatever. We all know HARD water added to a radiator is bad, so use the softest stuff you can get! What the hey, it's $2!
Rob

 

[sbc350gearhead]

I put a bottle in my truck a few weeks ago. I just added it to the 50/50 mix already in there. I have noticed no change in anything so far. But then again, I had no cooling problems to begin with.

 

[Flashlightboy]

Today I changed the AF on my '03 Civic.

It comes with a 50/50 mix but in SoCal the freeze protection is unneccesay. The car only has 700 miles on it so I did the math and drained out the right amount of the factory stuff and replaced it with an equal amount of distilled water and along with some Water Wetter.

I'm now running about 60/40 water/AF and I'm set for the summer.

I heartily recommend this brew but remember to use Honda brand coolant for Hondas and Acuras 'cuz it's got some special stuff in that protects all-aluminum engines. Water Wetter is da bomb!

[ August 25, 2003, 01:29 AM: Message edited by: Flashlightboy ]

 

[terryr]

No, I'm not confused. I said that's what I heard, and that is what I heard.
The reasoing is that water turns to steam to fast in a forest fire, while the additive slows it down. That's why water is used on fires. Not to prevent rust. I guess Oz doesn't have too many forest fires.

So where did WW come from? It must be some industrial chemical, with some other purpose besides a thin mixture in water for full retail.

 

[keithej]

I put it in my 03 Mustang (V6) but I did it at the same time I switched to synthetic oil at 5500 miles. I wanted the radiator/transmission cooler to stay cool as I make weekend 80-mph trips over the pass in the summer. Downside, I live close to my workplace. The car used to reach normal temp about 2/3 of the way home. Since the water wetter and synthetic oil, it barely makes normal temp by the time I get home. Night temps (2nd shift) are about the same as before I switched. The bad thing is it may never get the heater/defroster warm in the winter before I get home. Maybe I'll try the Rain-x anti fog stuff on the inside of the windshield.

 

[Ken2]

quote:

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Originally posted by keithej:
I put it in my 03 Mustang (V6) but I did it at the same time I switched to synthetic oil at 5500 miles. I wanted the radiator/transmission cooler to stay cool as I make weekend 80-mph trips over the pass in the summer. Downside, I live close to my workplace. The car used to reach normal temp about 2/3 of the way home. Since the water wetter and synthetic oil, it barely makes normal temp by the time I get home. Night temps (2nd shift) are about the same as before I switched. The bad thing is it may never get the heater/defroster warm in the winter before I get home. Maybe I'll try the Rain-x anti fog stuff on the inside of the windshield.

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Interesting...the WaterWetter should allow the coolant to warm sooner by increasing the rate of heat transfer from the engine into the coolant...and also increase the rate of heat transfer from the coolant to the radiator metal and thence to the air. WaterWetter and similar products don't make the engine run cooler, they make the coolant cool better.

Have you considered a new thermostat...maybe your's isn't closing tightly when cold.


Ken

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

It was developed for racing...Red Line details its entire story on their website under "about us"...

 

[keithej]

Interesting...the WaterWetter should allow the coolant to warm sooner by increasing the rate of heat transfer from the engine into the coolant...and also increase the rate of heat transfer from the coolant to the radiator metal and thence to the air. WaterWetter and similar products don't make the engine run cooler, they make the coolant cool better.

I don’t think the engine runs cooler, it just takes a little longer to warm up (that is for the needle on the engine temp gauge to reach the final temp). It used to be warmed up by the time I passed the high school, now it rarely does before I get home, about 1 or 2 miles further. I also slightly diluted the antifreeze mixture from the factory fill to something with a little more distilled water/Red Line mixture and switched to synthetic oil at the same time. Do you think those changes could have made cooling a little more efficient? I think the thermostat is OK. It’s only about 4 or 5 miles from work to home. If it wasn’t for the red lights, I doubt it would even get close to full warm up.

In the past I was never overly concerned about fluid maintenance but this car is the first domestic I’ve bought (since wife and I have been together) and I want to make sure it doesn’t break down prematurely from neglect on my part. If it does, I will have to listen to my wife complain about domestic quality. She’s Asian and prefers the imports.

I spent a Saturday morning detailing it not long after I bought it and when some of her friends come over for dinner that evening they complimented me on the car. They all drive Toyota, Lexus, … so I’ll keep reading this (this is a great site!) and other sites to pick up maintenance tips. Hopefully my Ford won’t become the subject of her friend’s jokes. Of course I could neglect the wife’s Honda, no, just an evil thought.

 

[Bror Jace]

"... the WaterWetter should allow the coolant to warm sooner by increasing the rate of heat transfer from the engine into the coolant...and also increase the rate of heat transfer from the coolant to the radiator metal and thence to the air."

But these two steps would be occuring simultaneously, right? So, that could account for the car taking longer to warm up, couldn't it?

--- Bror Jace