Anyone see this?

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Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Well, all that varies with the monthly bottle label/formula changes and I dunno why the "new" 0w-30 does not meet A5 when the old 0w-30 does.

i notice and have been reading labels, M1 5W-30 sold in my area, Ontairo Canada, did not have A5 on it for 2 years already. nore it have the "Honda" thing on it.
 
Quote:
i notice and have been reading labels, M1 5W-30 sold in my area, Ontairo Canada, did not have A5 on it for 2 years already. nore it have the "Honda" thing on it.


All the bottles have A1/B1 A5/B5 ACEA specs along with HTO-06. 0w30 does not.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.asp

Quote:
ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5
API SM, SL,SJ,EC,CF,CD
ILSAC GF-4
General Motors Service Fill GM4718M
General Motors Factory Fill GM 6094M
Ford WSS- M2C929-A
Chrysler MS-6395
Honda RWC
Honda / Acura HTO-06
 
Originally Posted By: gogozy
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Well, all that varies with the monthly bottle label/formula changes and I dunno why the "new" 0w-30 does not meet A5 when the old 0w-30 does.

i notice and have been reading labels, M1 5W-30 sold in my area, Ontairo Canada, did not have A5 on it for 2 years already. nore it have the "Honda" thing on it.


The Material Safety Data Sheet for the 5w30 being sold in Canada is from 2006

And it CLEARLY states:
Quote:

Specifications & Approvals
Mobil 1 5W-30 meets or exceeds the following industry specifications:
ACEA A1,B1,A5,B5
API SM,SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF4
Mobil 1 5W-30 has the following builder approvals:
General Motors Service Fill GM4718M
General Motors Factory Fill GM 6094M
Ford WSS- M2C929-A
Chrysler MS-6395

http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENPVLMOMobil_1_5W-30.pdf


And the 10w30 Data Sheet, last revised in 2006:
Quote:

Specifications & Approvals
Mobil 1 10W-30 meets or exceeds the following industry specifications:
ACEA A1, B1, A5, B5
API SM, SL,SJ, EC,CF
ILSAC GF-4
Mobil 1 10W-30 has the following builder approvals:
Daimler Chrysler MS-6395
General Motors Service Fill (Corvette) GM 4718M
General Motors Service Fill GM 6094M
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Well, all that varies with the monthly bottle label/formula changes and I dunno why the "new" 0w-30 does not meet A5 when the old 0w-30 does.


The US Data Sheets I referenced above were last revised in 2007.

The Canadian ones, which sport the SAME information were last revised in 2006.


But of course, it's ALWAYS in fashion to hate on Exxon-Mobil.
 
Quote:
But of course, it's ALWAYS in fashion to hate on Exxon-Mobil


I know how about it? Never understood why.
21.gif


They are a great company IMO.
 
Quote:
Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the engine oil where it protects the engine, instead of poisoning the catalytic converter. Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across its entire line of passenger car engine oils, including SynPower which is the only synthetic offering this additive.


http://www.valvoline.com/downloads/2008-003a.pdf
 
Looks like Mobil has taken the strategy of formulating the oil to meet as many requirements and specs as possible. Often, I imagine, that is at least partly a matter of threading the needle between opposing requirements - for example, one approval might require a minimum HTHS while another requires a minimum fuel efficiency. There are all sorts of trade-offs on an oil, as we know.

Possibly, to some degree, Mobil 1 is held captive to these trade-offs where an oil that has fewer approvals might gain some freedom to optimize the oil in one direction or another, and possibly even to formulate an oil with better wear properties.
 
Originally Posted By: glennc
Looks like Mobil has taken the strategy of formulating the oil to meet as many requirements and specs as possible. Often, I imagine, that is at least partly a matter of threading the needle between opposing requirements - for example, one approval might require a minimum HTHS while another requires a minimum fuel efficiency. There are all sorts of trade-offs on an oil, as we know.

Possibly, to some degree, Mobil 1 is held captive to these trade-offs where an oil that has fewer approvals might gain some freedom to optimize the oil in one direction or another, and possibly even to formulate an oil with better wear properties.


Great point Glenn!
 
So, the 5w-30 meets A5, or so it's claimed, off and on. That's inspiring. The old SL 0w-30 did meet A5 but the SM "new one" does not, even though Mobil says it's the "same".

Wow, add the fact you need to spend extra for the EP line now, and the Mobil 1 customer really doesn't know what the heck they are getting.

The only time I saw Mobil 1 on Buy One Get One sale it was a typo from Pep Boys. Conidering I could get all the PP and VSP I want BOGO, as cheap as dino, Mobil 1 falls a bit flat.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
So, the 5w-30 meets A5, or so it's claimed, off and on.


You aren't going to let that go are you? From their data sheets, it shows they have met it with the 5w30 and 10w30 formulas since 2006 at least!!! It's not an "on and off" thing, maybe you stumbled across an old bottle or something?

Quote:
That's inspiring. The old SL 0w-30 did meet A5 but the SM "new one" does not, even though Mobil says it's the "same".


Old 0w30 (2003):

Quote:

Mobil 1 0W-30 meets or exceeds the following industry specifications
ACEA A1,A5,B1,B5
API SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF3
Ford WWS M2C913-A/B
General Motors GM 4718M
Typical Properties
Mobil 1 0W-30
SAE Grade 0W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 56
cSt @ 100ºC 10.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 175
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.2
HTHS Viscosity, mPa-s @ 150ºC, ASTM D 4683 2.99
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 234
Density @ 15ºC kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.851


"new" 0w30:
Quote:

Specifications and Approvals


Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy meets or exceeds the following industry specifications
ACEA A1,B1
API SM,SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF4
Ford WWS WSS -M2C929-A
General Motors GM 4718M,GM6094M
Chrysler MS 6395


Typical Properties

Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy
SAE Grade 0W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 63.1
cSt @ 100ºC 11.0
Phosphorous 0.08
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.0
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 2.99
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 228
Total Base Number (TBN) 8.5
MRV @ -40 º c 11,100
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.845



Draw what you want from that info.


Quote:
Wow, add the fact you need to spend extra for the EP line now, and the Mobil 1 customer really doesn't know what the heck they are getting.


Sure they do. Go look at the data sheets. Yes, it's ALL a conspiracy to cause you heartache and discontent, hence the reason you obsess upon it.... But you don't run it, so I fail to see the reason you are "out to get" Exxon-Mobil. I really doubt they care.

Quote:
The only time I saw Mobil 1 on Buy One Get One sale it was a typo from Pep Boys. Conidering I could get all the PP and VSP I want BOGO, as cheap as dino, Mobil 1 falls a bit flat.


Then don't buy it!!! Let the rest of us who don't feel Exxon-Mobil has some crazy conspiracy going on buy it instead.
 
I'm glad I put a Synpower/Maxlife blend in my dad's '78 Ford F-150 a few days ago. It gets started twice a year to verify that it still runs (the back up to the back up snow plower). Maybe I'll wait three years before replacing the oil again.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
So, the 5w-30 meets A5, or so it's claimed, off and on.


You aren't going to let that go are you? From their data sheets, it shows they have met it with the 5w30 and 10w30 formulas since 2006 at least!!! It's not an "on and off" thing, maybe you stumbled across an old bottle or something?

Quote:
That's inspiring. The old SL 0w-30 did meet A5 but the SM "new one" does not, even though Mobil says it's the "same".


Old 0w30 (2003):

Quote:

Mobil 1 0W-30 meets or exceeds the following industry specifications
ACEA A1,A5,B1,B5
API SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF3
Ford WWS M2C913-A/B
General Motors GM 4718M
Typical Properties
Mobil 1 0W-30
SAE Grade 0W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 56
cSt @ 100ºC 10.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 175
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.2
HTHS Viscosity, mPa-s @ 150ºC, ASTM D 4683 2.99
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 234
Density @ 15ºC kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.851


"new" 0w30:
Quote:

Specifications and Approvals


Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy meets or exceeds the following industry specifications
ACEA A1,B1
API SM,SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF4
Ford WWS WSS -M2C929-A
General Motors GM 4718M,GM6094M
Chrysler MS 6395


Typical Properties

Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy
SAE Grade 0W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 63.1
cSt @ 100ºC 11.0
Phosphorous 0.08
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.0
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 2.99
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 228
Total Base Number (TBN) 8.5
MRV @ -40 º c 11,100
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.845



Draw what you want from that info.


Quote:
Wow, add the fact you need to spend extra for the EP line now, and the Mobil 1 customer really doesn't know what the heck they are getting.


Sure they do. Go look at the data sheets. Yes, it's ALL a conspiracy to cause you heartache and discontent, hence the reason you obsess upon it.... But you don't run it, so I fail to see the reason you are "out to get" Exxon-Mobil. I really doubt they care.

Quote:
The only time I saw Mobil 1 on Buy One Get One sale it was a typo from Pep Boys. Conidering I could get all the PP and VSP I want BOGO, as cheap as dino, Mobil 1 falls a bit flat.


Then don't buy it!!! Let the rest of us who don't feel Exxon-Mobil has some crazy conspiracy going on buy it instead.


It is simple, what you see on the website is different from what you see on the bottle label. It is true the A5 classification is on-and-off appears on bottle label. As far as I know ExxonMobil admits sometimes the formulations slighltly varies time to time on the ExxonMobil discretion. It does not make sense if they deliberately remove the text on the label if the oil meet the standard, and this I have been noticing from 2005 till today.
 
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
So, the 5w-30 meets A5, or so it's claimed, off and on.


You aren't going to let that go are you? From their data sheets, it shows they have met it with the 5w30 and 10w30 formulas since 2006 at least!!! It's not an "on and off" thing, maybe you stumbled across an old bottle or something?

Quote:
That's inspiring. The old SL 0w-30 did meet A5 but the SM "new one" does not, even though Mobil says it's the "same".


Old 0w30 (2003):

Quote:

Mobil 1 0W-30 meets or exceeds the following industry specifications
ACEA A1,A5,B1,B5
API SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF3
Ford WWS M2C913-A/B
General Motors GM 4718M
Typical Properties
Mobil 1 0W-30
SAE Grade 0W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 56
cSt @ 100ºC 10.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 175
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.2
HTHS Viscosity, mPa-s @ 150ºC, ASTM D 4683 2.99
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 234
Density @ 15ºC kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.851


"new" 0w30:
Quote:

Specifications and Approvals


Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy meets or exceeds the following industry specifications
ACEA A1,B1
API SM,SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF4
Ford WWS WSS -M2C929-A
General Motors GM 4718M,GM6094M
Chrysler MS 6395


Typical Properties

Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy
SAE Grade 0W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 63.1
cSt @ 100ºC 11.0
Phosphorous 0.08
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.0
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 2.99
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 228
Total Base Number (TBN) 8.5
MRV @ -40 º c 11,100
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.845



Draw what you want from that info.


Quote:
Wow, add the fact you need to spend extra for the EP line now, and the Mobil 1 customer really doesn't know what the heck they are getting.


Sure they do. Go look at the data sheets. Yes, it's ALL a conspiracy to cause you heartache and discontent, hence the reason you obsess upon it.... But you don't run it, so I fail to see the reason you are "out to get" Exxon-Mobil. I really doubt they care.

Quote:
The only time I saw Mobil 1 on Buy One Get One sale it was a typo from Pep Boys. Conidering I could get all the PP and VSP I want BOGO, as cheap as dino, Mobil 1 falls a bit flat.


Then don't buy it!!! Let the rest of us who don't feel Exxon-Mobil has some crazy conspiracy going on buy it instead.


It is simple, what you see on the website is different from what you see on the bottle label. It is true the A5 classification is on-and-off appears on bottle label. As far as I know ExxonMobil admits sometimes the formulations slighltly varies time to time on the ExxonMobil discretion. It does not make sense if they deliberately remove the text on the label if the oil meet the standard, and this I have been noticing from 2005 till today.


And conversely, it doesn't make sense for them to advertise that they DO in fact meet A5/B5 on their website if the product does not.

It is FAR easier for them to change the website content than the bottle labels.
 
From what I was told today, XOM lawyers are talking to Valvoline Lawyers. XOM is trying to get them to substantiate their claims.
 
C r a p you know what happens when lawyers get involved!? They get paid and the price of products go up...that sucks! Can't we all just get along (What the CEO of Ashland is saying right now).
 
I hope valvoline b itch slaps XOM around. Lets face it valvoline is a hughe company and they certainly couldnt have been dumb enough to throw a claim out there like that and have no proof to back it up.

I like and have always liked valvoline oils. Go search back through the UOA's and results from valvoline always come back good to great.
 
Quote:
We will respond to Valvoline in due time. Meanwhile, ExxonMobil is not
aware of any accurate data that would support Valvoline's superiority claim
versus Mobil 1. The Sequence IVA test , which is referenced in the
Valvoline advertising, and the basis for the brand's claim, is an industry
standard test that measures camshaft wear under low temperature, low speed,
and low load conditions,. This test is used to grade oils on a “pass” or
“fail” basis and is not precise enough for accurate quantitative
comparison. Hence, it is improbable that an oil could achieve a
statistically significant result that is “four times better” than any other
oil, let alone an oil such as Mobil 1 that has been shown to easily pass
the test requirement.

We have always been proud of our technical leadership. Consequently, we
know that the performance of Mobil 1 fully synthetic motor oil meets or
exceeds some of the industry's toughest standards. Mobil 1 conducts
numerous tests to ensure outstanding engine protection and excellent
overall performance. Mobil 1 assesses product performance and protection in
multiple categories, including: piston cleanliness, sludge prevention, oil
consumption, ring sticking, cam wear, cylinder wear and oil thickening. In
an effort to demonstrate it's outstanding performance, Mobil 1 stands up to
the world's toughest industry recognized engine tests and continues to
exceed them all. Mobil 1 5W-30 not only meets the industry standard API and
ILSAC tests, but also the harsh and demanding requirements for advanced
engine oil performance of General Motors and Honda. Mobil 1 5W-30 was the
first motor oil to pass both the GM 4718M and Honda HTO-06 test
requirements. In fact, Mobil 1 5W-30 is factory fill in all Chevrolet
Corvettes and all Honda turbocharged engines. Only Mobil 1 is able to make
this claim.

When it comes to offering overall engine protection, Mobil 1 delivers
proven performance.
 
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