Anyone run a bypass on an '04 to '08 F-150 5.4L???
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Go to the amsoil site and look on the right hand column under "installation info bypass filters". They have one shot of the 5.4 if im not mistaken but I think its the older model. All the different pics give you some ideas on how to mount the system if thats what you decide to go with. I run them on my transmissions and am considering one for my camry in the future.
Hopefully someone on here will have the system on the same truck or have access to some pics. Good Luck!
Hopefully someone on here will have the system on the same truck or have access to some pics. Good Luck!
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The engine really doesn't put out enough dirt to get any real world benefit from a bypass filter. Probable there is a very good change the engine will out last your ownership of the p/u and then some why spend the money for really nothing. You would have to do 25,000 per year + oil change intervals and at least that many miles per year to benefit.
dnewton3
Staff member
I agree with Steve S; bypass filtration isn't necessary for most applications.
People often get enthralled with the thought of going the extra mile and "baby'ing their baby". I don't deny them that. But common sense seems to be laid aside when it comes to many of us regarding filtration.
Consider that the 5.4L can easily go 250k miles with routine oil/filter changes. It can likely go much further, but let's just limit it to that for the sake of debate. How many miles does the OP drive per year? Let's say he averages 15k miles/year. That is almost 17 years of ownership. Most people don't keep a vehicle that long.
So, you want to add bypass filtration? Let's add that up. $200 at a minimum for the initial cost. Plus, you've added capacity, which means more oil for every change. Plus, the cost of the extra filter elements. It's quite concieveable that a yearly OCI for a bypass set-up with PAO synthetics could reach $100? ($13 of ammoritized initial cost, 7 quarts of premium synthetic at $7 each, bypass filter element at $30 and premium FF filter at $15 = $107).
Versus three conventional oil OCI's at 5k miles over that same 15k miles per year? Perhaps $50 for the year. Or, it's quite possible with a good group III to go for two OCIs. Get some group III on sale, and a good filter (pick your favorite brand) and possibly cover the entire year with $40? (example: I just saw QS group III "synthetic" on sale at Menards for $2.48/qt with rebate. Plus a $5 Napa Gold filter from Fleetfitler = $20 OCI).
So, are you going to get 2.5 times "better" wear protection with the bypass/premium synthetic set up versus the group III/Wix fitler? I highly doubt it. You'll pay 2.5x more money for the priviledge; will you get 2.5 times less wear?
I don't know what year of vehicle we're speaking of here (he mentioned an '04-'08, but not how old it was). But don't forget that today's vehicles come with fairly lengthy warranties. Let's not discount the whole " ... or one year ..." oil change mentality in many of those OEM warranties. If you only drive 10k or 15k miles a year, you still have to dump the oil, no matter how good of condition it's in, to satisfy warranty requirment. Yeah, it would be rare to suffer an engine failure. But then you would have to argue your oil UOAs to show Ford that it wasn't the oil or filter's fault; do you really want to have to go to that extreme? Nothing's more fun than getting a vehicle OEM, a lube manufacturer, and a bypass manufacturer all in a three way argument over who's at fault ...
So often we hear about how bypass filtration can greatly extend the life of the engine. But engines today can easily outlast the life of the rest of the vehicle in most cases. They also can outlast the desire of ownership in most cases too. So adding bypass filtration adds life past a practical point anyway. I personally don't agree that bypass adds life, but even if you do accept that theory, you still can't get away from the facts that engines can probably reach 300k with good routine care. And most ORIGINAL owners never see that mark anyway. I recall a conversation with a man who supported bypass filtration. He claimed that he used it to extend the life of the engine. But also admitted he typically would trade a vehicle out before it hit 150k miles. I my opinion, he added nothing to the vehicle. He then claimed that the bypass was worth it because he could move the set-up from vehicle to vehicle, as he changed ownership; he was going to use it his whole life. So what? Where's the savings in using bypass for your whole life? Bypass isn't made to extend the human life; it's claimed to extend engine life. If you dump a vehicle with 150k miles on it, who the heck cares if it had bypass? I can assure the engine didn't care.
Bypass filtration pays off with high OCI length; extending out the oil use way past the "norm" of society. It truly is a great tool, but you have to use it appropriately to gain.
If you "want" bypass as a toy for your truck, then go for it. Just realize that it won't likely pay off for you in oil savings, nor in vehicle life. There are some very motivated people that truly use UOAs and bypass/synthetics to the fullest possible gain; I applaud their efforts! But most people just don't have the discipline to extend the OCI, or own the vehicle long enough.
People often get enthralled with the thought of going the extra mile and "baby'ing their baby". I don't deny them that. But common sense seems to be laid aside when it comes to many of us regarding filtration.
Consider that the 5.4L can easily go 250k miles with routine oil/filter changes. It can likely go much further, but let's just limit it to that for the sake of debate. How many miles does the OP drive per year? Let's say he averages 15k miles/year. That is almost 17 years of ownership. Most people don't keep a vehicle that long.
So, you want to add bypass filtration? Let's add that up. $200 at a minimum for the initial cost. Plus, you've added capacity, which means more oil for every change. Plus, the cost of the extra filter elements. It's quite concieveable that a yearly OCI for a bypass set-up with PAO synthetics could reach $100? ($13 of ammoritized initial cost, 7 quarts of premium synthetic at $7 each, bypass filter element at $30 and premium FF filter at $15 = $107).
Versus three conventional oil OCI's at 5k miles over that same 15k miles per year? Perhaps $50 for the year. Or, it's quite possible with a good group III to go for two OCIs. Get some group III on sale, and a good filter (pick your favorite brand) and possibly cover the entire year with $40? (example: I just saw QS group III "synthetic" on sale at Menards for $2.48/qt with rebate. Plus a $5 Napa Gold filter from Fleetfitler = $20 OCI).
So, are you going to get 2.5 times "better" wear protection with the bypass/premium synthetic set up versus the group III/Wix fitler? I highly doubt it. You'll pay 2.5x more money for the priviledge; will you get 2.5 times less wear?
I don't know what year of vehicle we're speaking of here (he mentioned an '04-'08, but not how old it was). But don't forget that today's vehicles come with fairly lengthy warranties. Let's not discount the whole " ... or one year ..." oil change mentality in many of those OEM warranties. If you only drive 10k or 15k miles a year, you still have to dump the oil, no matter how good of condition it's in, to satisfy warranty requirment. Yeah, it would be rare to suffer an engine failure. But then you would have to argue your oil UOAs to show Ford that it wasn't the oil or filter's fault; do you really want to have to go to that extreme? Nothing's more fun than getting a vehicle OEM, a lube manufacturer, and a bypass manufacturer all in a three way argument over who's at fault ...
So often we hear about how bypass filtration can greatly extend the life of the engine. But engines today can easily outlast the life of the rest of the vehicle in most cases. They also can outlast the desire of ownership in most cases too. So adding bypass filtration adds life past a practical point anyway. I personally don't agree that bypass adds life, but even if you do accept that theory, you still can't get away from the facts that engines can probably reach 300k with good routine care. And most ORIGINAL owners never see that mark anyway. I recall a conversation with a man who supported bypass filtration. He claimed that he used it to extend the life of the engine. But also admitted he typically would trade a vehicle out before it hit 150k miles. I my opinion, he added nothing to the vehicle. He then claimed that the bypass was worth it because he could move the set-up from vehicle to vehicle, as he changed ownership; he was going to use it his whole life. So what? Where's the savings in using bypass for your whole life? Bypass isn't made to extend the human life; it's claimed to extend engine life. If you dump a vehicle with 150k miles on it, who the heck cares if it had bypass? I can assure the engine didn't care.
Bypass filtration pays off with high OCI length; extending out the oil use way past the "norm" of society. It truly is a great tool, but you have to use it appropriately to gain.
If you "want" bypass as a toy for your truck, then go for it. Just realize that it won't likely pay off for you in oil savings, nor in vehicle life. There are some very motivated people that truly use UOAs and bypass/synthetics to the fullest possible gain; I applaud their efforts! But most people just don't have the discipline to extend the OCI, or own the vehicle long enough.
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You make way too much practical sense dnewton. I was considering a bypass for my 5.4l and dismissed it pretty quickly for the reasons you stated.
I do disagree that bypass does not add life. There are a number of studies that indicate differently, but I don't think it comes into play for most well maintained "regular Joe" engines that will go 200K plus. The rest of the vehicle is worn out by that time too and most of us are ready for a new one by then anyway. So the increased longevity point is moot for the average private owner. THat encompasses most of the BITOG crowd
As to annual changes... not me. I have no warranty to worry about and I run my oil out to 7500 mi., at least, without a time limit. That could be about 18 months. Thus far the annual UOAs have born this out but I have an 18 month interval coming up soon on a GTX/Syntec blend. Two year intervals on the tractors.. again with UOA verification coming this fall. I have a diesel pickup that at about 14 months so far, but only about 2000 miles.
I do disagree that bypass does not add life. There are a number of studies that indicate differently, but I don't think it comes into play for most well maintained "regular Joe" engines that will go 200K plus. The rest of the vehicle is worn out by that time too and most of us are ready for a new one by then anyway. So the increased longevity point is moot for the average private owner. THat encompasses most of the BITOG crowd
As to annual changes... not me. I have no warranty to worry about and I run my oil out to 7500 mi., at least, without a time limit. That could be about 18 months. Thus far the annual UOAs have born this out but I have an 18 month interval coming up soon on a GTX/Syntec blend. Two year intervals on the tractors.. again with UOA verification coming this fall. I have a diesel pickup that at about 14 months so far, but only about 2000 miles.
dnewton3
Staff member
Yes, Jim, I'd have to agree to disagree on the longevity issue.
But I will say that I outright agree with you that bypass filtration can add to equipment life. But, it's all relative. Frequent maintenance can ALSO add to equipment life! I always like to explain that statment by having people understand that there is (usually) more than one means to the same end.
Here's an example:
One of our members here (ottomatic) and I also spend time over at DieselPlace. Over there, he mentioned an older Ford truck he had with the 6.9L IDI diesel. He had over 450k miles on it before it got stolen. He had never opened up the engine except for routine oil/filter changes, etc; just your "typical" maintenance. Never any interal engine issues. Always ran well. He ran nothing but mono-30-grade Pennzoil oil, and Fram filters. OCI'd every 4k miles religiously.
Now, could a bypass filter system have made the engine last longer? IE - could it have protected the engine "better" with less wear? Hard to tell, really, as he never had to open it up, so he never got the chance to measure any bearing clearances, etc. But HolyCow - 450K miles? OCI'd every 4k miles. That's a lot of oil changes. And that's a lot of good service with just regular old oil and average filters! He surely could have been able to save money with bypass filtration, with fewer OCIs. But less wear? Who really knows? At 450k miles, it was still going strong according to him. Bypass filters didn't get him to 450k miles. Frequent oil changes did.
You can bypass-filter out the small contamination, before it gets a chance to agglomerate and become large. Or, you can just flush out small contamination, before it gets a chance to get too large. Different means to the same end ...
So, for the MAIN purpose of bypass filtration, it makes OIL last longer. THAT is the main benefit of bypass filtration. Can bypass filtration make a vehicle last longer? Yes, it can. But that trait is not exclusive to bypass filtration. You can achieve long life with frequent oil changes, too.
Another thing you often hear about is the claim that bypass filtration helps keep the engine oil at a lower temperature. Well, that's a self-evident factoid if I ever heard one. Let's consider how that works. Add a filter and plumbing = more capacity. More capacity = cooler oil, and also less wear/qt of oil (ie - less contamination per quart). But guess what? I can achieve the same thing by adding an external oil cooler. Add a heat exchange = more capacity and plumbing = cooler oil and less contamination per quart.
To me, when a company promotes a product, I want to know what makes the product different from the other options. What advantages does it have that cannot be claimed by other methods. Don't try to convince me that some attribute exists as exclusive to the product, when the exact same result can be achieved by other means. That is why I have such heartburn with all the claims of increased engine life by Amsoil, OilGuard, FS, etc. I can make any engine last just as long as one with bypass filtration, but it just would cost me more time/money along the way due to frequent OCIs. I'll pick on Amsoil, but certaily the claims from Oil Guard, Gulf Coast, Filtration Solutions, etc are similar. Let's look at them one at a time. This is straight from their website.
By-Pass Filtration Benefits
• Dramatically Extended Drain Intervals
• Improved Oil Cooling
• Increased Filtration Capacity and Life
• Increased Fluid System Capacity
• Efficient Small Particle and Soot Removal
• Significantly Extended Engine Life
• Equipment Constantly Runs on Clean Oil
• Increased Engine Efficiency
• Remove Particles Less Than One Micron
Item 1) I agree with this
Item 2) True, but can be achived by adding an external cooler
Item 3) True, but I plumb up another Full Flow filter, thereby increasing filter capacity and life (not filter down as fine, but certainaly add life and capacity)
Item 4) True, but see items 2,3
Item 5) True; very good at this. But as discussed, I can change oil more often and achieve the same net result
Item 6) True, but see item 5 above
Item 7) True, but again, change oil frequently (see item 5 yet again)
Item 8) Perhaps? clean oil = better effiency? Again, see item 5
Item 9) Perhaps? maybe down to or below 1um? I'll let the various bypass filter makers argue that point. But, since contamination below 5um is rarely detrimental to an engine, it's a moot point.
The UNIQUE trait that bypass filtration offers is a much better ability to filter contamination out of the oil, therby making the oil last longer in service. THAT is it's main benefit. That is what sets it apart from other maintenance methods. All the other claims, such as cooler oil, more capacity, greater equipment longevity, can be achieved by other means.
Bypass filtration doesn't make engines last any longer than does proper frequent maintenance. It is a fiscal savings tool that is quite effective, when used properly, and both it's benefits and limitations are understood.
But I will say that I outright agree with you that bypass filtration can add to equipment life. But, it's all relative. Frequent maintenance can ALSO add to equipment life! I always like to explain that statment by having people understand that there is (usually) more than one means to the same end.
Here's an example:
One of our members here (ottomatic) and I also spend time over at DieselPlace. Over there, he mentioned an older Ford truck he had with the 6.9L IDI diesel. He had over 450k miles on it before it got stolen. He had never opened up the engine except for routine oil/filter changes, etc; just your "typical" maintenance. Never any interal engine issues. Always ran well. He ran nothing but mono-30-grade Pennzoil oil, and Fram filters. OCI'd every 4k miles religiously.
Now, could a bypass filter system have made the engine last longer? IE - could it have protected the engine "better" with less wear? Hard to tell, really, as he never had to open it up, so he never got the chance to measure any bearing clearances, etc. But HolyCow - 450K miles? OCI'd every 4k miles. That's a lot of oil changes. And that's a lot of good service with just regular old oil and average filters! He surely could have been able to save money with bypass filtration, with fewer OCIs. But less wear? Who really knows? At 450k miles, it was still going strong according to him. Bypass filters didn't get him to 450k miles. Frequent oil changes did.
You can bypass-filter out the small contamination, before it gets a chance to agglomerate and become large. Or, you can just flush out small contamination, before it gets a chance to get too large. Different means to the same end ...
So, for the MAIN purpose of bypass filtration, it makes OIL last longer. THAT is the main benefit of bypass filtration. Can bypass filtration make a vehicle last longer? Yes, it can. But that trait is not exclusive to bypass filtration. You can achieve long life with frequent oil changes, too.
Another thing you often hear about is the claim that bypass filtration helps keep the engine oil at a lower temperature. Well, that's a self-evident factoid if I ever heard one. Let's consider how that works. Add a filter and plumbing = more capacity. More capacity = cooler oil, and also less wear/qt of oil (ie - less contamination per quart). But guess what? I can achieve the same thing by adding an external oil cooler. Add a heat exchange = more capacity and plumbing = cooler oil and less contamination per quart.
To me, when a company promotes a product, I want to know what makes the product different from the other options. What advantages does it have that cannot be claimed by other methods. Don't try to convince me that some attribute exists as exclusive to the product, when the exact same result can be achieved by other means. That is why I have such heartburn with all the claims of increased engine life by Amsoil, OilGuard, FS, etc. I can make any engine last just as long as one with bypass filtration, but it just would cost me more time/money along the way due to frequent OCIs. I'll pick on Amsoil, but certaily the claims from Oil Guard, Gulf Coast, Filtration Solutions, etc are similar. Let's look at them one at a time. This is straight from their website.
By-Pass Filtration Benefits
• Dramatically Extended Drain Intervals
• Improved Oil Cooling
• Increased Filtration Capacity and Life
• Increased Fluid System Capacity
• Efficient Small Particle and Soot Removal
• Significantly Extended Engine Life
• Equipment Constantly Runs on Clean Oil
• Increased Engine Efficiency
• Remove Particles Less Than One Micron
Item 1) I agree with this
Item 2) True, but can be achived by adding an external cooler
Item 3) True, but I plumb up another Full Flow filter, thereby increasing filter capacity and life (not filter down as fine, but certainaly add life and capacity)
Item 4) True, but see items 2,3
Item 5) True; very good at this. But as discussed, I can change oil more often and achieve the same net result
Item 6) True, but see item 5 above
Item 7) True, but again, change oil frequently (see item 5 yet again)
Item 8) Perhaps? clean oil = better effiency? Again, see item 5
Item 9) Perhaps? maybe down to or below 1um? I'll let the various bypass filter makers argue that point. But, since contamination below 5um is rarely detrimental to an engine, it's a moot point.
The UNIQUE trait that bypass filtration offers is a much better ability to filter contamination out of the oil, therby making the oil last longer in service. THAT is it's main benefit. That is what sets it apart from other maintenance methods. All the other claims, such as cooler oil, more capacity, greater equipment longevity, can be achieved by other means.
Bypass filtration doesn't make engines last any longer than does proper frequent maintenance. It is a fiscal savings tool that is quite effective, when used properly, and both it's benefits and limitations are understood.
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We don't disagree at all. Frequent oil changes are as good as a bypass system... acknowledged! There are nits to pick along the way for the pedantic and some caveats according to application, but those are the broad facts nobody can dispute.
Did somebody mention earlier that this only applies to modern engines? Older engines, even those with 1st Gen full flow filters, didn't do so well in the filtering game and that's likely where the add-on bypass system earned its street cred and has hung on since. It's not too hard to find a 25u absolute full flow spin on now, and for a few extra bucks you can even do better. Those options further negate the need for a bypass system. In a sense, Amsoil's EaO filters are undermining the market for their own bypass systems.
Did somebody mention earlier that this only applies to modern engines? Older engines, even those with 1st Gen full flow filters, didn't do so well in the filtering game and that's likely where the add-on bypass system earned its street cred and has hung on since. It's not too hard to find a 25u absolute full flow spin on now, and for a few extra bucks you can even do better. Those options further negate the need for a bypass system. In a sense, Amsoil's EaO filters are undermining the market for their own bypass systems.
dnewton3
Staff member
Jim - you are again making some very valid points that I didn't touch on.
Older engines and older formulations of oil certainly could benefit from bypass filtration much more than today's engines and oils. Today's engines (say from the mid-1990's or newer) when used with today's oils, are nearly impossible to kill, as long as they are properly maintained. I think that bypass filter makers are relying on some older data, and some older concepts, to sell their products. Bypass filters still make very good sense for extended OCIs. But very few people have the guts or desire to make it that long. And many of us BITOGers have OCI O/C disorder anyway!
As you commented, Amsoil's EaO filters are one very good example of better filtration, too. I'd even go so far as to mention the full-flow fitler on my Dmax truck; nominally rated by Wix at 8um, for a full flow design! Talk about blurring the lines of distinction between full flow and bypass capabilities - zowie!
For comparison: in 1987 I had a diesel Escort. It had a factory oil filter mount with two filters. On top was the full flow filter rated at 19um nominal. The bypass filter underneath was rated at 10um nominal. (data per Wix site). At the time, that was probably pretty darn good for a factory OEM vehicle set up.
Older engines and older formulations of oil certainly could benefit from bypass filtration much more than today's engines and oils. Today's engines (say from the mid-1990's or newer) when used with today's oils, are nearly impossible to kill, as long as they are properly maintained. I think that bypass filter makers are relying on some older data, and some older concepts, to sell their products. Bypass filters still make very good sense for extended OCIs. But very few people have the guts or desire to make it that long. And many of us BITOGers have OCI O/C disorder anyway!
As you commented, Amsoil's EaO filters are one very good example of better filtration, too. I'd even go so far as to mention the full-flow fitler on my Dmax truck; nominally rated by Wix at 8um, for a full flow design! Talk about blurring the lines of distinction between full flow and bypass capabilities - zowie!
For comparison: in 1987 I had a diesel Escort. It had a factory oil filter mount with two filters. On top was the full flow filter rated at 19um nominal. The bypass filter underneath was rated at 10um nominal. (data per Wix site). At the time, that was probably pretty darn good for a factory OEM vehicle set up.
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
For comparison: in 1987 I had a diesel Escort. It had a factory oil filter mount with two filters. On top was the full flow filter rated at 19um nominal. The bypass filter underneath was rated at 10um nominal. (data per Wix site). At the time, that was probably pretty darn good for a factory OEM vehicle set up.
Now we know... a closet bypass filter user! For shame.
For comparison: in 1987 I had a diesel Escort. It had a factory oil filter mount with two filters. On top was the full flow filter rated at 19um nominal. The bypass filter underneath was rated at 10um nominal. (data per Wix site). At the time, that was probably pretty darn good for a factory OEM vehicle set up.
Now we know... a closet bypass filter user! For shame.
dnewton3
Staff member
Touche', Jim!
You got me there!
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http://www.millionmilevan.com
no bypass filter, 10k oil changes, one 50k mile oil change in there somewhere.
no bypass filter, 10k oil changes, one 50k mile oil change in there somewhere.
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