Specifically oil analysis on CK-4/SN, Like Delo SDE, XLE, or other top names in the game... I realize that the ZDDP is being replaced by other ingredients, but I can't really get a definite answer on what they are, or any sort of real comparison tests that were done... Particularly in my case with 12v Cummins, Flat tappet with heavier valve springs... I suppose I could just run a CI-4+, but would still like to see some data on these new oils
Anyone have Oil Analysis on CK-4/SN?
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I recommend you check our VOA forum. Look for Mobi 1 Delvac ESP 5W40 and 0W40. Also, Shell Rotella 0w40 which is a SN CJ-4.
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My VOA of Delo XLE 10W30 should be in very early this week. Will be posted up when I get it.
Here are a couple-
VOA Valvoline Premium Blue CK-4 10w30
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...08/voa-valvoline-premium-blue-ck-4-10w30
Delo 5w40 Syn CJ-4 vs CK-4 VOA
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4598341/Bighorn2500
VOA Valvoline Premium Blue CK-4 10w30
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...08/voa-valvoline-premium-blue-ck-4-10w30
Delo 5w40 Syn CJ-4 vs CK-4 VOA
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4598341/Bighorn2500
I have an early on UOA of PetroCan 10w30 CES20086/CK4 in my 2017 Ram 3500 with the ISB6.7. 48,000km on engine and 24,000 on the oil. Aside from wear metals being high due to break in, the oil was in very good shape, with plenty of the additives left and great viscosity retention. With 2.87% fuel dilution, half the mileage towing, the starting vis was 12 and it ended at 11.47. It is extended drain rated (with testing of course) and it is a fraction of what Rotella goes for in price.
As well, do not worry about particular additive levels to use in your 12 valve. The various iterations of this engine are easy on oil. Run what ever oil that fits your climate and meets the particular CES level you need. CES20086 is the current CK4 and is backward compatible.
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And yet more reasons I will be sticking with ST 15w-40. At least it's still CJ-4 for my dinosaur 7.3 PSD. I hope they don't convert soon. Why in the heck are the oil companies doing this crap?
Originally Posted by bbslider001
And yet more reasons I will be sticking with ST 15w-40. At least it's still CJ-4 for my dinosaur 7.3 PSD. I hope they don't convert soon. Why in the heck are the oil companies doing this crap?
Byron: Rural Kings "harvest King" 10w30, 15w40 and 5w40 HDEO are all CJ-4 also
And yet more reasons I will be sticking with ST 15w-40. At least it's still CJ-4 for my dinosaur 7.3 PSD. I hope they don't convert soon. Why in the heck are the oil companies doing this crap?
Byron: Rural Kings "harvest King" 10w30, 15w40 and 5w40 HDEO are all CJ-4 also
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Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Originally Posted by bbslider001
And yet more reasons I will be sticking with ST 15w-40. At least it's still CJ-4 for my dinosaur 7.3 PSD. I hope they don't convert soon. Why in the heck are the oil companies doing this crap?
Byron: Rural Kings "harvest King" 10w30, 15w40 and 5w40 HDEO are all CJ-4 also
Yes! I saw that. I also forgot to mention the Tractor Supply, which is same manufacturer as Supertech, is as well. Thanks for the heads up. The Harvest KIng is also manufactured by Warren, so I am guessing it is the same as the TSC and the Supertech. It's a very good oil. I hope they stay with their formulation!
Originally Posted by bbslider001
And yet more reasons I will be sticking with ST 15w-40. At least it's still CJ-4 for my dinosaur 7.3 PSD. I hope they don't convert soon. Why in the heck are the oil companies doing this crap?
Byron: Rural Kings "harvest King" 10w30, 15w40 and 5w40 HDEO are all CJ-4 also
Yes! I saw that. I also forgot to mention the Tractor Supply, which is same manufacturer as Supertech, is as well. Thanks for the heads up. The Harvest KIng is also manufactured by Warren, so I am guessing it is the same as the TSC and the Supertech. It's a very good oil. I hope they stay with their formulation!
Byron: folks here tell me Harvest King is CITGO made
Originally Posted by bbslider001
And yet more reasons I will be sticking with ST 15w-40. At least it's still CJ-4 for my dinosaur 7.3 PSD. I hope they don't convert soon. Why in the heck are the oil companies doing this crap?
I used Supertech 15W-40 ( in OTR trucks) for a few intervals back in 2012-2013 and it worked fine. The TBN dropped much lower than the name brand oils, but otherwise worked great. For the short OCIs you're doing, anything is fine. Supertech is CJ-4 and I think it had the heavy duty engine builder's approvals (?)
However, I can't understand the dismay you and others have towards CK-4. Only some of the CK-4 oils are SN and those that aren't, likely have the same phosphorus/zinc as the old CJ-4.
With CK-4, you get improved aeration control, better oxidation control and strong TBN. I have put up some really good UOAs with the dreaded CK-4/SN (with the API limited phosphorus). My OCIs include many many miles, many gallons of fuel burned and crazy hours accumulated all while staying loaded for 94-96% of the miles. No way I would do what I've done with CJ-4.
CJ-4 and the engine builder's approvals of the day were fantastic. The thing is, the CK-4 and new (tougher) engine builder's specs have improved performance that benefit anyone. I'm taking advantage of the new oils and saving myself a lot of time and money. The SN part of it hasn't been a problem whatsoever. The oil has to meet the new specs regardless of the strategy each oil blender uses.
Sorry... I've been a shill for CK-4 and it's been a while since I've said anything about it.
And yet more reasons I will be sticking with ST 15w-40. At least it's still CJ-4 for my dinosaur 7.3 PSD. I hope they don't convert soon. Why in the heck are the oil companies doing this crap?
I used Supertech 15W-40 ( in OTR trucks) for a few intervals back in 2012-2013 and it worked fine. The TBN dropped much lower than the name brand oils, but otherwise worked great. For the short OCIs you're doing, anything is fine. Supertech is CJ-4 and I think it had the heavy duty engine builder's approvals (?)
However, I can't understand the dismay you and others have towards CK-4. Only some of the CK-4 oils are SN and those that aren't, likely have the same phosphorus/zinc as the old CJ-4.
With CK-4, you get improved aeration control, better oxidation control and strong TBN. I have put up some really good UOAs with the dreaded CK-4/SN (with the API limited phosphorus). My OCIs include many many miles, many gallons of fuel burned and crazy hours accumulated all while staying loaded for 94-96% of the miles. No way I would do what I've done with CJ-4.
CJ-4 and the engine builder's approvals of the day were fantastic. The thing is, the CK-4 and new (tougher) engine builder's specs have improved performance that benefit anyone. I'm taking advantage of the new oils and saving myself a lot of time and money. The SN part of it hasn't been a problem whatsoever. The oil has to meet the new specs regardless of the strategy each oil blender uses.
Sorry... I've been a shill for CK-4 and it's been a while since I've said anything about it.
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Originally Posted by dustyroads
Originally Posted by bbslider001
And yet more reasons I will be sticking with ST 15w-40. At least it's still CJ-4 for my dinosaur 7.3 PSD. I hope they don't convert soon. Why in the heck are the oil companies doing this crap?
I used Supertech 15W-40 ( in OTR trucks) for a few intervals back in 2012-2013 and it worked fine. The TBN dropped much lower than the name brand oils, but otherwise worked great. For the short OCIs you're doing, anything is fine. Supertech is CJ-4 and I think it had the heavy duty engine builder's approvals (?)
However, I can't understand the dismay you and others have towards CK-4. Only some of the CK-4 oils are SN and those that aren't, likely have the same phosphorus/zinc as the old CJ-4.
With CK-4, you get improved aeration control, better oxidation control and strong TBN. I have put up some really good UOAs with the dreaded CK-4/SN (with the API limited phosphorus). My OCIs include many many miles, many gallons of fuel burned and crazy hours accumulated all while staying loaded for 94-96% of the miles. No way I would do what I've done with CJ-4.
CJ-4 and the engine builder's approvals of the day were fantastic. The thing is, the CK-4 and new (tougher) engine builder's specs have improved performance that benefit anyone. I'm taking advantage of the new oils and saving myself a lot of time and money. The SN part of it hasn't been a problem whatsoever. The oil has to meet the new specs regardless of the strategy each oil blender uses.
Sorry... I've been a shill for CK-4 and it's been a while since I've said anything about it.
I don't have a problem other than the sheer drop in numbers in the add packs for the ones that count. (Zinc, Magnesium,Phosphorus all cut in half!!!!) for example. Calcium is doubled, but the rest are axed. I am just looking at the numbers. I guess they seem to be working fine. I am sure I will have no choice pretty soon but to use CK/4 because that is all that will be available. Maybe I am misunderstanding the VOA that I looked over? I am at least glad to hear your real world account in that they seem to be working just fine.
Originally Posted by bbslider001
And yet more reasons I will be sticking with ST 15w-40. At least it's still CJ-4 for my dinosaur 7.3 PSD. I hope they don't convert soon. Why in the heck are the oil companies doing this crap?
I used Supertech 15W-40 ( in OTR trucks) for a few intervals back in 2012-2013 and it worked fine. The TBN dropped much lower than the name brand oils, but otherwise worked great. For the short OCIs you're doing, anything is fine. Supertech is CJ-4 and I think it had the heavy duty engine builder's approvals (?)
However, I can't understand the dismay you and others have towards CK-4. Only some of the CK-4 oils are SN and those that aren't, likely have the same phosphorus/zinc as the old CJ-4.
With CK-4, you get improved aeration control, better oxidation control and strong TBN. I have put up some really good UOAs with the dreaded CK-4/SN (with the API limited phosphorus). My OCIs include many many miles, many gallons of fuel burned and crazy hours accumulated all while staying loaded for 94-96% of the miles. No way I would do what I've done with CJ-4.
CJ-4 and the engine builder's approvals of the day were fantastic. The thing is, the CK-4 and new (tougher) engine builder's specs have improved performance that benefit anyone. I'm taking advantage of the new oils and saving myself a lot of time and money. The SN part of it hasn't been a problem whatsoever. The oil has to meet the new specs regardless of the strategy each oil blender uses.
Sorry... I've been a shill for CK-4 and it's been a while since I've said anything about it.
I don't have a problem other than the sheer drop in numbers in the add packs for the ones that count. (Zinc, Magnesium,Phosphorus all cut in half!!!!) for example. Calcium is doubled, but the rest are axed. I am just looking at the numbers. I guess they seem to be working fine. I am sure I will have no choice pretty soon but to use CK/4 because that is all that will be available. Maybe I am misunderstanding the VOA that I looked over? I am at least glad to hear your real world account in that they seem to be working just fine.
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bbslider001, i think you're doing good to seek out an inexpensive oil like Supertech, but don't fret about it when they switch to CK-4. You can get plenty of CK-4 oils without the dual rating (SN included) and chances are that Supertech will look much the same as the CJ-4 you're using now.
I happen to use Delo products and they are all dual rated and so required to keep phosphorus at 800 ppm max, but Chevron says that they supplement their oils with additives unseen in a VOA. Don't worry about the calcium and magnesium either, those are backed up by other additives as well. Beyond the API rating, the engine manufacturer's approval tests are tougher than ever and one way or another, they all find a way to pass the tests.
The CK-4 tests (as well as the engine manufacturer's tests) were developed to allow hotter running new engines and at the same time, allow for longer intervals while keeping wear to a minimum. They have impoved shear stability, oxidation stability and better aeration control.
I'm seeing excellent results with inexpensive synthetic blend and conventional oil. No expensive synthetic oil needed. When the time comes, I think you'll find CK-4 to be fine in your truck; Supertech, Traveller, or whatever you find cheapest will work great (no matter what it looks like on paper).
I happen to use Delo products and they are all dual rated and so required to keep phosphorus at 800 ppm max, but Chevron says that they supplement their oils with additives unseen in a VOA. Don't worry about the calcium and magnesium either, those are backed up by other additives as well. Beyond the API rating, the engine manufacturer's approval tests are tougher than ever and one way or another, they all find a way to pass the tests.
The CK-4 tests (as well as the engine manufacturer's tests) were developed to allow hotter running new engines and at the same time, allow for longer intervals while keeping wear to a minimum. They have impoved shear stability, oxidation stability and better aeration control.
I'm seeing excellent results with inexpensive synthetic blend and conventional oil. No expensive synthetic oil needed. When the time comes, I think you'll find CK-4 to be fine in your truck; Supertech, Traveller, or whatever you find cheapest will work great (no matter what it looks like on paper).
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Originally Posted by dustyroads
bbslider001, i think you're doing good to seek out an inexpensive oil like Supertech, but don't fret about it when they switch to CK-4. You can get plenty of CK-4 oils without the dual rating (SN included) and chances are that Supertech will look much the same as the CJ-4 you're using now.
I happen to use Delo products and they are all dual rated and so required to keep phosphorus at 800 ppm max, but Chevron says that they supplement their oils with additives unseen in a VOA. Don't worry about the calcium and magnesium either, those are backed up by other additives as well. Beyond the API rating, the engine manufacturer's approval tests are tougher than ever and one way or another, they all find a way to pass the tests.
The CK-4 tests (as well as the engine manufacturer's tests) were developed to allow hotter running new engines and at the same time, allow for longer intervals while keeping wear to a minimum. They have impoved shear stability, oxidation stability and better aeration control.
I'm seeing excellent results with inexpensive synthetic blend and conventional oil. No expensive synthetic oil needed. When the time comes, I think you'll find CK-4 to be fine in your truck; Supertech, Traveller, or whatever you find cheapest will work great (no matter what it looks like on paper).
I think you are absolutely correct. Everyone fretted about CJ-4 when it cam out and look where that got us LOL. Cheers!
bbslider001, i think you're doing good to seek out an inexpensive oil like Supertech, but don't fret about it when they switch to CK-4. You can get plenty of CK-4 oils without the dual rating (SN included) and chances are that Supertech will look much the same as the CJ-4 you're using now.
I happen to use Delo products and they are all dual rated and so required to keep phosphorus at 800 ppm max, but Chevron says that they supplement their oils with additives unseen in a VOA. Don't worry about the calcium and magnesium either, those are backed up by other additives as well. Beyond the API rating, the engine manufacturer's approval tests are tougher than ever and one way or another, they all find a way to pass the tests.
The CK-4 tests (as well as the engine manufacturer's tests) were developed to allow hotter running new engines and at the same time, allow for longer intervals while keeping wear to a minimum. They have impoved shear stability, oxidation stability and better aeration control.
I'm seeing excellent results with inexpensive synthetic blend and conventional oil. No expensive synthetic oil needed. When the time comes, I think you'll find CK-4 to be fine in your truck; Supertech, Traveller, or whatever you find cheapest will work great (no matter what it looks like on paper).
I think you are absolutely correct. Everyone fretted about CJ-4 when it cam out and look where that got us LOL. Cheers!
Delo XLE 10W30 is posted in the VOA section.
Originally Posted by ofelas
I believe Amsoil 0w40 DZF is CK4/SN/SN+
It has 1314 Zinc, 1206 Phosphorous, and 99 Boron.
Reads like CI-4+ ZDDP levels to me.
Yes their Diesel 0w40 is as shown on Page 2 here: https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3467.pdf
I believe Amsoil 0w40 DZF is CK4/SN/SN+
It has 1314 Zinc, 1206 Phosphorous, and 99 Boron.
Reads like CI-4+ ZDDP levels to me.
Yes their Diesel 0w40 is as shown on Page 2 here: https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3467.pdf
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And paying that much for oil is not in my lifetime LOL
Originally Posted by bbslider001
Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Originally Posted by bbslider001
And yet more reasons I will be sticking with ST 15w-40. At least it's still CJ-4 for my dinosaur 7.3 PSD. I hope they don't convert soon. Why in the heck are the oil companies doing this crap?
Byron: Rural Kings "harvest King" 10w30, 15w40 and 5w40 HDEO are all CJ-4 also
Yes! I saw that. I also forgot to mention the Tractor Supply, which is same manufacturer as Supertech, is as well. Thanks for the heads up. The Harvest KIng is also manufactured by Warren, so I am guessing it is the same as the TSC and the Supertech. It's a very good oil. I hope they stay with their formulation!
The 2.5 gallon jugs of Traveller 15w-40 I bought a few days ago are CK-4 but not SN rated.
Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Originally Posted by bbslider001
And yet more reasons I will be sticking with ST 15w-40. At least it's still CJ-4 for my dinosaur 7.3 PSD. I hope they don't convert soon. Why in the heck are the oil companies doing this crap?
Byron: Rural Kings "harvest King" 10w30, 15w40 and 5w40 HDEO are all CJ-4 also
Yes! I saw that. I also forgot to mention the Tractor Supply, which is same manufacturer as Supertech, is as well. Thanks for the heads up. The Harvest KIng is also manufactured by Warren, so I am guessing it is the same as the TSC and the Supertech. It's a very good oil. I hope they stay with their formulation!
The 2.5 gallon jugs of Traveller 15w-40 I bought a few days ago are CK-4 but not SN rated.
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Welp....there goes that. That oil is the same as Supertech.
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